Read an article on CNNSI where Kobe admitted that he didn't think the 2012 team could beat the Dream Team in a seven game series.  He thought in a one game scenario that the '12 team would have a decent chance, but even he seems to realize that winning a seven game series would be too much to ask.

If you combine the 24 players from 1992 and current 2012 squad, and attempt to assemble the best team, LeBron, Durant and Kobe might be the only three from 2012 that would make the final 12 man roster.  Maybe, just maybe one of the current points.

I would think if they played 10 games the 1992 team probably would win at least 7-8 times.    Using HD terms I think a deciding factor would be the IQ.   I'd guess the avg IQ of the 1992 team was about an A and the avg of the 2012 team is around  C+.

If you were down to your last $100 and needed to place this wager who would you bet on with the game on the line?  LeBron and Westbrook, or Jordan and Magic?


Now if DWade, Derrick Rose, and Dwight Howard were added to the 2012 team it would be significantly closer.

Posted by zbrent716 on 7/14/2012 1:53:00 PM (view original):

Posted by isack24 on 7/14/2012 10:31:00 AM (view original):
I'm not knocking Jordan's defensive abilities, but I don't know why he would deserve the benefit of the doubt that he could guard guys who are totally different and/or better than any of the guys on that list.  

Why don't I think he could guard LBJ?  For the same reason that everyone says LBJ couldn't guard Jordan.  Because they are unguardable given their size, speed, strength, talent, and the way they get calls (and yes, Jordan got all the calls LBJ gets and more).

Why don't I think Jordan could guard Durant?  Size and speed.  Jordan could be the best defender in the world, but at 6''6" there's nothing he can do.

"Larry Bird wasn't as talented as any of these guys on the current team. But he was still better because he was fundamentally sound and plays the game the way it was supposed to be played," Worthy said. "There's not a lot of one on one. LeBron wouldn't have as much success playing one-on-one game against Patrick Ewing and David Robinson. He' be met at the rim. It just doesn't happen.... Guys were defensively minded and I don't see that as much in today's game."

Link.

Putting aside for the moment the talent comment (I think he means athletic) and the "way it was supposed to be played" part, this comment illustrates something some of you are missing. Let's say, for the moment, that Jordan couldn't guard (for ex.) Durant (not sure I agree, but whatever) - this is perhaps relevant in today's game, where you beat your man and then are rewarded with a highlight dunk as everyone gets out of the way at the rim. That's not how the Dream Team played.

IF you get past Jordan (or whoever) on the perimeter, you have the likes of Ewing and Robinson waiting at the rim. They can erase a lot of defensive "mistakes" on the outside. Finally, Jordan and Pippen were all-world defenders with Bill Cartright, Will Purdue, Luc Longley, and Bill Wennington behind them. Their actual level of defensive intensity is more-or-less unmatched in today's NBA; what they would do to today's players knowing they could be super aggressive and have some of those mistakes nullified at the rim? The present-day players might adjust somewhat eventually, but right now they're simply not prepared for it.

I don't think James Worthy has any better perspective than anyone else, and likely has a bias.  I don't know that I've ever heard anyone speak ill of the era in which he played.

I drafted a long post about why James and Durant are unguardable by anyone we've run across in our basketball lives, but it's pointless because someone will just say "of course Jordan could make up the five inch difference," or "it doesn't matter that James is twice as strong and fast as Larry Bird and is unstoppable going to the basket and is arguably one of the best passers ever," and neither of us can prove otherwise.

I'll respond directly to your post.  The problem with that reasoning, which I acknowledge makes sense in the abstract, is that one of the major reasons the lanes are more open these days is the prevalence of the high pick-and-roll.  That is a relatively recent phenomenon.  Ewing and Robinson wouldn't be sitting by the basket.  They'd be forced out to the perimeter.  Your statement about adjustments is absolutely correct, but that goes both ways.  Those guys never played defense 20 feet from the hoop, and now they wouldn't have a choice.  Pulling those guys away not only opens the lane, but it forces them to actually guard the perimeter, which I don't think Ewing, at least, would do well.  My overall point is that adjustments go both ways, and the current NBA players actually have perfected a play which cuts directly into the heart of the DT's strength on defense.

But again, I want to be clear; I don't think 2012 would win a series, but I think it would much closer than most of you believe.

difficult to run a pick and roll within 30 feet of the basket if the hand checking of the Dream Team era was allowed.

When that rule was put in we saw an explosion of the scoring point guards that dominant today.

Posted by isack24 on 7/14/2012 10:31:00 AM (view original):
I'm not knocking Jordan's defensive abilities, but I don't know why he would deserve the benefit of the doubt that he could guard guys who are totally different and/or better than any of the guys on that list.  

Why don't I think he could guard LBJ?  For the same reason that everyone says LBJ couldn't guard Jordan.  Because they are unguardable given their size, speed, strength, talent, and the way they get calls (and yes, Jordan got all the calls LBJ gets and more).

Why don't I think Jordan could guard Durant?  Size and speed.  Jordan could be the best defender in the world, but at 6''6" there's nothing he can do.

You say jordan got all the calls and more. wrong. LBJ averages 8.8 FTA per game. MJ avg 8.1. Maybe you could say LBJ takes more shots and so gets fouled more, but wrong, MJ took 22.9 and lbj is at 20.4 so jordan should be averaging more fouls if he supposedly got more calls, but he didnt. You say Jordan could not cover LBJ, but it's likely he would not be covering LBJ, pippen would when he is in the game. LBJ is a SF/ PF, MJ is a sg. 

Posted by poncho0091 on 7/14/2012 5:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by isack24 on 7/14/2012 10:31:00 AM (view original):
I'm not knocking Jordan's defensive abilities, but I don't know why he would deserve the benefit of the doubt that he could guard guys who are totally different and/or better than any of the guys on that list.  

Why don't I think he could guard LBJ?  For the same reason that everyone says LBJ couldn't guard Jordan.  Because they are unguardable given their size, speed, strength, talent, and the way they get calls (and yes, Jordan got all the calls LBJ gets and more).

Why don't I think Jordan could guard Durant?  Size and speed.  Jordan could be the best defender in the world, but at 6''6" there's nothing he can do.

You say jordan got all the calls and more. wrong. LBJ averages 8.8 FTA per game. MJ avg 8.1. Maybe you could say LBJ takes more shots and so gets fouled more, but wrong, MJ took 22.9 and lbj is at 20.4 so jordan should be averaging more fouls if he supposedly got more calls, but he didnt. You say Jordan could not cover LBJ, but it's likely he would not be covering LBJ, pippen would when he is in the game. LBJ is a SF/ PF, MJ is a sg. 

Through Jordan's first 9 seasons, he averaged 8.9 FT per game.  It was only after he became primarily a jump shooter that his FTs dropped.  He got tons of calls that no one else in the league was getting at the time.

Lebron James is not a PF.  He guards that spot sometimes, but he's closer to a PG than a PF.  And the point was that Jordan, if he was in the game, would have to be matched on either James or Durant, and I don't think he can guard either.

Posted by Iguana1 on 7/14/2012 5:21:00 PM (view original):
difficult to run a pick and roll within 30 feet of the basket if the hand checking of the Dream Team era was allowed.

When that rule was put in we saw an explosion of the scoring point guards that dominant today.

Good point, but I'm confident Lebron would be fine playing physical handling the ball on a pick-and-roll.

Some of you people are out of your GD minds. No one on the Dream Team could have guarded Russell F'ing Westbrook? Are you kidding me?

Come on guys ... Jordan is the best player to ever play the game.  There is not a player today that is worthy to hold his jock strap while he takes a shower.

And LeBron is at least amongst the top 3 to ever play the game.  Just saying...

Still hard for me to put him ahead of Kareem, but he might get there.  I don't buy arguments for Russell or Wilt ahead of LeBron, though obviously both were great.

... I think Lebron has a long way to go before you can start to talk about him in those terms.

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/14/2012 9:27:00 PM (view original):
And LeBron is at least amongst the top 3 to ever play the game.  Just saying...

Still hard for me to put him ahead of Kareem, but he might get there.  I don't buy arguments for Russell or Wilt ahead of LeBron, though obviously both were great.

Saying Kareem is above Wilt would lead me to believe you put a ton of stock in cumulative numbers. But that clearly cannot be the case if you have LeBron top 20, let alone top 3. FWIW, you're wrong on both counts.

I'm not talking about anything from a pure numbers standpoint, I'm talking about raw ability to dominate a game.  That's generally a "prime" sort of a thing anyway, so I don't think it's too early to talk about LeBron in that sense.  He's not likely to get any better than he is right now.

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/14/2012 11:12:00 PM (view original):
I'm not talking about anything from a pure numbers standpoint, I'm talking about raw ability to dominate a game.  That's generally a "prime" sort of a thing anyway, so I don't think it's too early to talk about LeBron in that sense.  He's not likely to get any better than he is right now.

Yes he has the ability to do so but he doesn't. I want to see him actually use his athletic ability to its full potential and just completely take over. No more of those silly isolation mid range fade aways or 3 points. He has the ability to get to the basket any time he pleases and I wonder what would happen if he actually did that.

Posted by dahsdebater on 7/14/2012 11:12:00 PM (view original):
I'm not talking about anything from a pure numbers standpoint, I'm talking about raw ability to dominate a game.  That's generally a "prime" sort of a thing anyway, so I don't think it's too early to talk about LeBron in that sense.  He's not likely to get any better than he is right now.

If you're really talking about raw ability to dominate a game (your words), then Wilt is *really* #1. The NBA rules were changed just to slow him down and reduce that dominance. You won't ever see that with LeBron.