Team positioning against slashing team Topic

isack24
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 7/20/2012 3:30:00 PM (view original):
You would only give up 54 fts if you are way behind in ath/spd and team have bad defense, in which case, you would give up 50 fts even when you play +5. 
I'm referring to a couple seasons ago in the NT against my Ark Tech team.  You know that my Ark Tech team never has a bad defense.  I probably had 4-5 less points of team ath, same speed, and 60+ team def.
7/20/2012 4:01 PM
wildcat98
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Posted by isack24 on 7/20/2012 2:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by alblack56 on 7/20/2012 1:56:00 PM (view original):
If a team rarely shoot 3's, I use -2 also. I don't worry too much about fouling
Yeah, I mean that's easy to say in the abstract, until you play -3 against a team that shot 6 3s all season and give up 54 FTs and lose by 6 despite having comparable ath and elite def.

To the bigger picture, I feel like that's a gimmicky offense that would be easy to stop in real life, but because of the poor HD logic that packing the lane against slashers = more fouls, there really isn't a good way to defend those offenses.
You have identified one of myriad issues with the HD logic. The game is more about figuring out "tricks" to to exploit the logic than it is about real basketball strategy. But WIS won't address these issues of realism until and unless they start seeing significant losses in their user base--and maybe not even then, as long as they're still profitable.
7/20/2012 4:02 PM
mizzou77
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 7/20/2012 3:30:00 PM (view original):
You would only give up 54 fts if you are way behind in ath/spd and team have bad defense, in which case, you would give up 50 fts even when you play +5. 
T, either you're not giving this it's due credit... or you're behind what's going on in the game right now.
The sim can and will take one of these teams with absolutely no outside threat at all and if the RNG rolls snake eyes on ya...throw 30+ fouls and 50 ft's on you in a heartbeat.
And it can be done to the best teams in any world. Period!

in just 3-4 seasons this has become an interesting situation.

I'm actually one in favor of some randomness in the game.... and I like different ways to skin the kat.... but
7/20/2012 5:13 PM (edited)
tianyi7886
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Posted by mizzou77 on 7/20/2012 5:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tianyi7886 on 7/20/2012 3:30:00 PM (view original):
You would only give up 54 fts if you are way behind in ath/spd and team have bad defense, in which case, you would give up 50 fts even when you play +5. 
T, either you're not giving this it's due credit... or you're behind what's going on in the game right now.
The sim can and will take one of these teams with absolutely no outside threat at all and if the RNG rolls snake eyes on ya...throw 30+ fouls and 50 ft's on you in a heartbeat.
And it can be done to the best teams in any world. Period!
Ofc it can because its all probability. In any rng, the worst d3 team can beat the best d1 team, albeit with a tiny percentage. My point is, I wouldn't start playing +1 to +5 against a team that shoots 0 3s simply because 4 years ago, I gave up 55 fts against a team when I played -5. 
7/20/2012 5:11 PM
mullycj
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My settings are primarily based on 3pt shooting.  I would go -4 or -5 against such a team.

7/20/2012 5:14 PM
mizzou77
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Mully, I think (IMHO) of course, you are living in HD 2010. A -5 against a good one of these teams might foul out every player you have.
7/20/2012 5:28 PM
tdiddy3
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I've never had any problems playing a -5 on a team shooing no 3s.  Just my 2 cents.
7/20/2012 5:50 PM
cpas9
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I would probably play a -3 or 4.
7/20/2012 6:27 PM
hogstench
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lol, my mind's blown ... I'm not sure I would or wouldn't listen to cpas ....
7/20/2012 6:33 PM
fatchance
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Put me in the minority. If the opponent relies on his guards shooting a high percentage of the shots then I would play a +1 or perhaps +2 or more depending on a few other variables even if said guards take a ridiculously high level of 2's vs. 3's. Now if they are a team that runs most of their offense through the pf or c and shoot few 3's then a -3 or higher minus is probably the way to go. If the sf takes the majority of shots in same situation I look to who else takes a higher pct of the shots after him. These ratios are based on man to man and probably close to the same for fcp but zone defenses have some adjustments to make.
7/20/2012 7:38 PM
rednation58
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Posted by fatchance on 7/20/2012 7:38:00 PM (view original):
Put me in the minority. If the opponent relies on his guards shooting a high percentage of the shots then I would play a +1 or perhaps +2 or more depending on a few other variables even if said guards take a ridiculously high level of 2's vs. 3's. Now if they are a team that runs most of their offense through the pf or c and shoot few 3's then a -3 or higher minus is probably the way to go. If the sf takes the majority of shots in same situation I look to who else takes a higher pct of the shots after him. These ratios are based on man to man and probably close to the same for fcp but zone defenses have some adjustments to make.
will definitely test this out. 
7/20/2012 8:55 PM
rednation58
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Posted by fatchance on 7/20/2012 7:38:00 PM (view original):
Put me in the minority. If the opponent relies on his guards shooting a high percentage of the shots then I would play a +1 or perhaps +2 or more depending on a few other variables even if said guards take a ridiculously high level of 2's vs. 3's. Now if they are a team that runs most of their offense through the pf or c and shoot few 3's then a -3 or higher minus is probably the way to go. If the sf takes the majority of shots in same situation I look to who else takes a higher pct of the shots after him. These ratios are based on man to man and probably close to the same for fcp but zone defenses have some adjustments to make.
will definitely test this out. 
7/20/2012 8:55 PM
gillispie1
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i do think there has been some change that reduces the effectiveness of the -4 and -5. new engine timeline
7/20/2012 8:57 PM
gillispie1
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im not sure where exactly i said to play a -2, but ill take your word for it :) i usually do play a - setting against a low 3 point shooting team, but this is a little twist on that - what about when the guards are still predominantly scoring?

there are a few things to consider. first, you are in a double edged sword situation, so any reasons you had to play your team at a default setting, now hold more water. for example, if i have a team i like to run a +2  with, i might still play a +2 or +1 against this kind of situation. if i had a team i played a -2 with by default, id definitely be playing a - setting against this situation.

second, the TYPE of guard scoring is important. is this a situation where the guards have good per, low lp, and the coach is just artificially holding them back? this is a major mistake by the coach, usually - but results in a lot of long range jump shots. in that case, a + setting still may be appropriate. on the other hand, if the team has a bunch of guards with mediocre per, and they have a bunch of lp and strong ath, you are probably seeing a team who just is not taking as many jumpers - and in that case, a - setting is definitely in order. 

this does feel a bit like deja vu, so maybe i was asked this question specifically... i don't remember. but thats my thought on it.
7/20/2012 9:01 PM
grantduck
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Posted by isack24 on 7/20/2012 10:18:00 AM (view original):
OK, so what is the general consensus on the best way to stop a high ath/lp team with no per that takes no 3s and racks up huge FT numbers?

I don't want to rehash the stupidity of a (-5) defense somehow creating more fouls than a (0) defense in this situation, but that apparently seems to be the way the engine works.  Obviously a + defense seems stupid as it doesn't make sense to play up on guys who you know aren't shooting jumpers, so do I just play 0 or -1 and hope he doesn't draw too many fouls?

Thanks.
Check their speed ratings.  If they have high speed, -3; if low speed -1 or 0.
7/21/2012 8:26 PM
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