Success of Non-Big 6 Schools Topic

car_crazy_v2
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In Crum (1 game/day world), it's been 14 seasons since a non-Big 6 school competed for a national championship. With Crum being the only world I have a team in, could some users from other worlds shed some light on how mid-majors and low-majors have been doing since the major changes about a year and a half ago? 

The consensus seems to be that it's become increasingly difficult to compete at non-Big 6 schools unless you have a conference with many good coaches. If I could hear some opinions on the validity of that general feeling as well, that would be welcomed. Discussion on changes that would alleviate this problem is welcome as well. 
7/21/2012 1:12 PM
mullycj
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That would be discussion #1,501 on this topic.
7/21/2012 1:19 PM
car_crazy_v2
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Well I've seen threads on proposed solutions, but I can't seem to find much specific info on the success of mid/low majors in other worlds. Thanks for the info though because I was completely unaware! 
7/21/2012 1:43 PM
tianyi7886
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There just aren't that many full non-bcs conf in most worlds.

CUSA in Rupp had 2 teams in the Final Four 4 seasons ago.

Utah in MWC (which is generally close to full) has been pretty good, making a S16 run once in a while, and looks poised for big run this year (http://whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=14045)

7/21/2012 2:17 PM
mullycj
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Championship game appearances

Smith :  Season #36 Bradley lost to UNC (so 22 seasons since it's happened)
Naismith :  Season #48 California Riverside lost to Mississippi (so 11 seasons)

7/21/2012 2:34 PM
car_crazy_v2
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So CUSA in Rupp is the result of a lot of great coaches gathering together and MWC in Phelan has some good coaches as well, but I imagine that Utah is the only team that will be competing at a high level in the near future. Although Air Force is doing some nice things. 

And those stats from Smith and Naismith mean that no mid/low major has been in a NC game since the changes were made. 
7/21/2012 2:52 PM
coach_billyg
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 7/21/2012 2:17:00 PM (view original):
There just aren't that many full non-bcs conf in most worlds.

CUSA in Rupp had 2 teams in the Final Four 4 seasons ago.

Utah in MWC (which is generally close to full) has been pretty good, making a S16 run once in a while, and looks poised for big run this year (http://whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=14045)

that CUSA has a ridiculous quality of coaches. i was there briefly, there are a few fantastic coaches and a bunch of great ones. if that conf doesn't succeed, THAT will prove something. its not a typical mid major experience either, who else has 2 conf mates making the final 4? not arguing with you, just saying them succeeding really means nothing about the typical mid major experience.
7/21/2012 3:08 PM
tianyi7886
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Sure billgy. I'm just saying, the lack of midmajors doing well in NT is not a clear cut case. It may very well be that the system is broken, recruiting generation sucks, etc. which makes mid major unable to compete. But it could also be that all the good coaches want to go to BCS conf, with mid major conf pretty much empty and populated with mediocre coaches.
7/21/2012 3:37 PM
alblack56
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Wooden: (after 59 seasons)
   Gonzaga was RU in season 41
  So. Miss won in season 35

Iba (after 57 seasons)
Season 54: St. Bonaventure won
Season 52: Dayton won
Season 47: St Bonaventure defeated Xavier
Season 46: St. Joe was RU
Season 45: St. Bonaventure won
Season 43: Rhode Island won
Season 41: Xavier was RU
7/21/2012 3:42 PM
tianyi7886
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Iba A-10 is another fine case of midmajors doing well.
 

With the new prestige system, I think we'll see more. I'm already seeing D baseline teams with B/B+ prestige.

7/21/2012 3:43 PM
stinenavy
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Here's what I came up with, with where the coach is now.

  Completed Season Sweet 16 Elite 8 Final 4 Championship Game Champion
Naismith 59 59 E.Michigan (Still with team) 48 Cal-Riverside (Sim AI) 48 Cal-Riverside (Sim AI) 48 Cal-Riverside (Sim AI) 40 Cal-Riverside (Now in DIII)
Rupp 59 59 Marshall and UTEP 59 Marshall (Still with team) 56 Marshall and UTEP 48 Gonzaga (Still with team) 48 Gonzaga (Still with team)
Iba 57 57 Utah (Indiana) 56 Dayton (Quit after Season) 54 St Bonaventure (Kentucky) 54 St Bonaventure (Kentucky) 54 St Bonaventure (Kentucky)
Crum 53 49 UNLV (Washington) 49 UNLV (Washington) 49 UNLV (Washington) 40 Northeastern  (Seton Hall) 40 Northeastern  (Seton Hall)
Tark 69 70 BYU (NT On-Going) 63 BYU (Still with team) 63 BYU (Still with team) 63 BYU (Still with team) 52 North Texas (No longer plays HD)
Knight 50 49 Charlotte (Still with team) 40 Illinois-Chicago (Nicholls St) 40 Illinois-Chicago (Nicholls St) 19 Memphis (Kansas) 19 Memphis (Kansas)
Phelan 49 49 San Diego St (Still with team) 42 Utah (Still with team) 28 High Point (No longer plays) 24 Air Force (Quit after Championship) 24 Air Force (Quit after Championship)

Obviously the changes to recruit generation made a wide gap between the haves and have-nots, but I'm a believer that the changes to the EE process and prestige calculation process will help with competitive balance.
7/22/2012 3:27 PM
car_crazy_v2
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Thanks stine. Can't believe it's been about 30 seasons in knight and phelan. 
7/22/2012 7:15 PM
Trentonjoe
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 7/21/2012 3:37:00 PM (view original):
Sure billgy. I'm just saying, the lack of midmajors doing well in NT is not a clear cut case. It may very well be that the system is broken, recruiting generation sucks, etc. which makes mid major unable to compete. But it could also be that all the good coaches want to go to BCS conf, with mid major conf pretty much empty and populated with mediocre coaches.
I agree with this.   To have a non BCS school make the Final Four you have to have a really good coach.    Most really good coaches go to really good schools.   
7/22/2012 8:40 PM
girt25
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The last non-BCS team to win the title in Allen was Southern in Season 40 (we're now about to conclude Season 57).

That was the end of a fairly legendary run of non-BCS schools kicking butt in Allen -- UNLV, Boston U, Cleveland State and Yale won in four consecutive seasons from 34-37, and then Southern in 40. Morris Brown, UNLV and Utah were runners up in 31-33. Maine beat Weber State in the final in 29.

I believe that since 41 and on, every single team to even make the tourney has been from the ACC. (I kid, I kid.)
7/22/2012 8:50 PM
m4284850
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 7/21/2012 3:43:00 PM (view original):

Iba A-10 is another fine case of midmajors doing well.
 

With the new prestige system, I think we'll see more. I'm already seeing D baseline teams with B/B+ prestige.

Iba A-10 crumbled. But if you join Phelan A-10 then we might have "a fine case" ;)
7/22/2012 8:56 PM
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