Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/21/2012 3:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by coach_billyg on 8/21/2012 12:52:00 PM (view original):
prestige advantage is being overstated IMO. B- to B+ is roughly equal to the 10 to 250 mile difference. B- to A is roughly equal to the 10 to 400 mile difference. distance advantage really does matter, and it really does equalize prestige to a significant degree. now, you can't underestimate that big 6 money if you don't have it... and you have to look at the circumstances, who are the teams you are worried about, what do they need, who are they after, who are they battling... to know if you should press your luck on a recruit. but it can be done. if i had, for example, b- prestige colorado, and there were local recruits, and no local big boys, i would consider it insanity NOT to jump on that 4 or 5 star rec recruit that was next door.
now, you are in portland, im not sure the same situation can apply. but if the case is really what you suggest, B+ is over 200, no A- or better within 360, then you might push your luck. theres a major difference between colorado and portland and that is of course big 6 money... which is probably a good 20-30K advantage. you should obviously be calculating that every season. anyway, big schools do often care about walkons to some degree, you can half way neutralize that 20-30k by floating 2 walkons every season. you really just have to be creative, and know that you are never sure to win a top player. but that doesn't mean you don't play.
It's all relative when it comes to 4/5 stars. I know utvol at South Carolina dropped his entire budget on a 5 star 10 miles away, with either 3 or 4 slots, and lost the battle convincingly a few seasons ago. Meanwhile, LSU signed a 5 star uncontested without getting "very tight," and it was a legitimate 5 star sf. At the same time, ACC teams + PAC 10 team battled Utah in Utah for a 5 star recruit.
Every case varies for sure. But for a conf with playoff cash less than 8k, I think it would be nuts for a B- to jump out onto a 5 star right away. It just screams "poach me."
And I think I might even be underrepping prestige in my range. One of the recent battles I remember had my opponent dropping 85% more cash on the recruit, with him having a distance advantage (he was within 250, I was outside 360), so overall effort was greater than 85%. I ended up winning the battle with B- against his C-. I would say that your range of 10 to 400 miles for B- to A is undervaluing prestige by a big margin.
you never can talk about a battle in terms of money, its all about effort. how efficient was the spending of the money? knowing who you are, and knowing the other school is a C-, the smart money is you had at least a decent (10-20%) bonus on spending money properly.
i have ALWAYS felt the community, almost every last one of them except for kmason, over valued prestige. i dont know why this is but i have a couple guesses... but regardless, usually if like 100 people think something is one way, and you think its another, you have to figure you are wrong. ive tried, but i just cant accept it in this case, i tried to incorporate higher prestige values into battles i saved and it just didnt work, and then everything ive seen says it cant be that high, both with the higher prestige, and with lower prestige.
anyway, i figure there is a reason with a B south carolina, and 30K less bonus money, i won a local for both of us star pf off A+ duke, just a few seasons back. theres a reason with a B+ the next season, when A+ unc jumped a 5 star sf i had, i returned the favor by poaching an international. these are both higher than A+ A+s too, as would be expected at those schools with the coaches they have. in both cases the other school had as many or more scholarships too, i actually think one had 1 more and the other 2 more, but it might have only been +0/+1... and then there was the 20-30K in both money they had over me too..
unless i am totally off base in my estimations of how much money the other schools had to spend - and i won both battles by slim margins, right where i expected, so im doubting that is the case - there is no way prestige can be a 70, 80, 90% bonus for a letter grade - i was substantially more than a letter grade off in both cases. so either i know something about how to spend money effectively that these other coaches don't (which i am doubting), or i just can't see prestige being anywhere near that high. the belief really comes from many battles saved & analyzed leading to a certain prestige value being the only acceptable value, but those 2 battles which were my most recent two battles in d1 leave me pretty confident i correctly peg prestige lower than the generally accepted values.
8/22/2012 3:48 PM (edited)