Posted by dacj501 on 9/3/2012 4:05:00 AM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/3/2012 2:03:00 AM (view original):
heres the real question - how did you spend that 12k? if you spend 12k on a recruit EFFICIENTLY, this shouldnt have happened. it almost sounds like this guy had to be over 360 miles from you, and you had to dump most of that money in evals, which really isn't worth much as all (evals are low value, and lower still when the player hasn't dropped yet). so if i had to guess, i wouldnt hesitate to guess the 12k figure was very misleading.

the other coach mentioned trying 14 evals to pull down, I'd bet most of the OP's 12k was pull down evals too.

OP - Evals have a recruiting value, but it isn't great, and it is even lower when the evals are being used to pull down a recruit.

I understand that Evals are used to pull a kid down and not as important for recruiting which is why I went through and dished more money on the kid throughout the process.  I just let myself believe that he was going to sign due to nobody else showing up which is bad on my part obviously.

We've all been in your shoes - was he ever showing as "very tight" or similar on FSS to you?

ETA: (I commend you for changing title and approaching this more clinically.)

25 evals is really not worth that much. if the first 20 were used to pull the player down (just guessing, considering the other coach failed to pull down with 14, and higher prestige), then you probably had between 2 and 3 campus visits into the kid. that can easily be overcome.

just another lesson that money spent doesn't mean a damn thing, its all about considering credit

Posted by dwise89 on 9/3/2012 4:15:00 AM (view original):
I had put in 25 scouting trips, the recruit was 310 miles away from me. (C. Washington).  That had him interested in me and then I dropped occasional money into him through each cycle as nobody else was around and I just wanted to "ensure" he stayed. 

I'm not sure when he started considering the other school but I did not get an email from the kid until the signing period cycle that stated he was looking elsewhere and at that point I was completely off of his list.

It's not something to be upset about, I guess I was just more confused as to it seemingly happened in one cycle.  Kind of out nowhere.

I'm guessing that the reason he was so expensive to pull down is that DH was trying to pull him down at the same time, which makes it tougher for both schools. Trrr just either realized that and decided to just wait to see if the kid dropped, or made a money based decision which lead to the same result, while you kept spending til you pulled him. 

AS a sidebar now, and recognizing that you've addressed this, I don't like the term poaching, because it presumes (by definition) that the recruit is the property of the recruiting school already, which no one would claim they believe. There are issues with recruiting, seble even admits he doesn't like it. That doesn't mean they'll ever let him have time to address it, so it is what it is. If you called it not snagging or, just nice recruiting under the sim we have not the sim we wish we had I'd agree - he already had a good bit invested on the pull down (of what to him still seemed like an unclaimed recruit, just like it did to you) but he decided to hold back once it got too pricey. When the kid dropped he already had money in, no reason for him not to battle for the kid. 

I wish I had a suggestion for you regarding the time difference thing. I'm a raging insomniac and I usually don't miss a cycle once recruiting starts til I get my guys (or at least til I think they are locked up) 

Live and learn, like you've said, try to have backup plans in mind whenever possible, and even taking a walk-on isn't all that bad. 


ETA:  If FSS showed him open to offers or anything that wasn't high priority, and if you had money remaining, you must take some responsibility for his loss - IF these conditions existed, you gambled that no one would come along, so you would have more carryover maybe - of course, if either of these weren't the case, nothing to see here....

Thanks for the post, Dacj.  I actually did use other money to secure a back up option for him and have put the remaining money into trying to land another kid.

The whole "poaching" thing was just more off of frustration at the time but it's fine now.  Sometimes I'm to competitive for my own good ;)

If you hate poaching this much, don't ever move up to D1. D1 is "poaching" central. 

Yeah, D1 is WAY more brutal.  I am not a horrible poacher (others can correct), but I once spent $50,000 on a recruit in 1 cycle. 

Posted by reinsel on 9/4/2012 1:30:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, D1 is WAY more brutal.  I am not a horrible poacher (others can correct), but I once spent $50,000 on a recruit in 1 cycle. 

I just dropped 150 HV in 2 cycles.

Posted by reinsel on 9/4/2012 1:30:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, D1 is WAY more brutal.  I am not a horrible poacher (others can correct), but I once spent $50,000 on a recruit in 1 cycle. 

I believe that IS the definition of Horrible Poacher... just looked it up... and wikipodiator sayz... $50,000 in one cycle = Horrible Poacher... so there you go

Posted by zags27 on 9/4/2012 5:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by reinsel on 9/4/2012 1:30:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, D1 is WAY more brutal.  I am not a horrible poacher (others can correct), but I once spent $50,000 on a recruit in 1 cycle. 

I believe that IS the definition of Horrible Poacher... just looked it up... and wikipodiator sayz... $50,000 in one cycle = Horrible Poacher... so there you go

I dunno, sounds like a pretty good poacher to me 

Wikipodiator?

Dude, you've got bigger problems.  Justin Daniel on your team is maybe the worst human-recruited B prestige DII player I've ever seen.  Recruit better ATH/DEF!

It's been a big recruiting cycle of poachers for me.  A couple of schools must have hacked my recruiting and just seem to double offer every single recruit I go after....and they aren't tournament teams and their conference sucks, so I have no idea how they have all they money they are spending.

Every so often, you just have those years. Also, if they were really bad there might be promises involved.

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/3/2012 4:37:00 AM (view original):
25 evals is really not worth that much. if the first 20 were used to pull the player down (just guessing, considering the other coach failed to pull down with 14, and higher prestige), then you probably had between 2 and 3 campus visits into the kid. that can easily be overcome.

just another lesson that money spent doesn't mean a damn thing, its all about considering credit

Hey there-- I have seen lots of ideas about considering credit in the post, but have been unable to come up with a multiplier myself and trying different strategies doesn't seem to help me figure it out because guys committ at different points.  Would love to see the updated "charts" on what you good guys think are the values.  Do those values always stay the same for every recruit?  Thanks