why is it "poor form" to make a move when it is most likely to be impactful (ie last cycle before signings)? Isn't the goal to get the best recruits for your school by whatever (legal) means necessary? Its not my primary recruiting method, but if the situation dictates it, I won't hesitate. 

I think many should be thinking of ways to improve recruiting technique instead of how to get payback. To me,  they are losing focus. Besides, poaching is a way of cooking eggs and has nothing to do with recruiting.

Posted by dacj501 on 10/3/2012 2:39:00 PM (view original):
why is it "poor form" to make a move when it is most likely to be impactful (ie last cycle before signings)? Isn't the goal to get the best recruits for your school by whatever (legal) means necessary? Its not my primary recruiting method, but if the situation dictates it, I won't hesitate. 

It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth an I'd never do it to anyone that hadn't done it to me first. 

Posted by udm_mike on 10/3/2012 7:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 10/3/2012 2:39:00 PM (view original):
why is it "poor form" to make a move when it is most likely to be impactful (ie last cycle before signings)? Isn't the goal to get the best recruits for your school by whatever (legal) means necessary? Its not my primary recruiting method, but if the situation dictates it, I won't hesitate. 

It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth an I'd never do it to anyone that hadn't done it to me first. 

seems like you are limiting yourself, but it is your right to do so. I won't/don't remember who does it when it happens to me...

Posted by milkamania on 9/29/2012 10:21:00 AM (view original):
super, you didn't do anything wrong.  however, i understand why people feel cheated when someone "poaches" a recruit.  and at least for me, it's not because I feel entitled to the player.  i hate it because it doesn't leave me any time to recover.  I understand that is not the other coaches problem, nor should it be, but it does p!ss me off. 

happened last season with one of my teams.  was on a player early with no competition.  i even saved money to protect him when a bigger school with a bigger budget swooped in on the cycle before signings.   he had 3 times my money and a prestige advantage, so could have had the recruit at any time, but he waited til every one of my backup targets was considering someone before moving in, leaving me scrambling.  had he gone after him early, i could have made other plans (and yes, i understand maybe real life intervened and caused him to miss a day or 2 of recruiting). 

what always interests me is how defensive "poachers" get when you get mad and tell them to watch their backs.  if I know that's how you recruit (and again, it is a perfectly legitimate and effective strategy), then you should be prepared for someone to do it to you.  and no, I won't take a bad player just to "get even", but if i have the choice between 2 comparible players, and "poaching" one from someone who did it to me is an option, yeah, i will rememer that and factor it in. I figure it is also a recruiting strategy to warn yo that if you do it to me I'll come after you, as maybe, just maybe, that might get someone not to do it to me.

milk, just want to point out that when you say that poacher get defensive, I almost always see that when someone absolutely goes crazy on them on CC boards or the forums. When you start insulting someone in a public forum, they will almost always get defensive. When you (general you, not you, specifically, obviously) get your conference mates to join in on that, YOU'RE the one being a dick, not the poacher.

As far as the "it's a recruiting strategy to warn them" blah blah blah, I think that if someone is willing to poach to begin with, they're not going to back off just because you said you're going to blow your budget on them. Anyone who is intelligent enough to be good enough at the game to worry about that is intelligent enough to realize it's an empty threat.

Posted by dacj501 on 10/4/2012 2:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by udm_mike on 10/3/2012 7:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 10/3/2012 2:39:00 PM (view original):
why is it "poor form" to make a move when it is most likely to be impactful (ie last cycle before signings)? Isn't the goal to get the best recruits for your school by whatever (legal) means necessary? Its not my primary recruiting method, but if the situation dictates it, I won't hesitate. 

It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth an I'd never do it to anyone that hadn't done it to me first. 

seems like you are limiting yourself, but it is your right to do so. I won't/don't remember who does it when it happens to me...

I think, more importantly, if you're waiting that long to go after a recruit, and you have enough budget to go after someone THAT hard, you're leaving a lot to chance. Though, if the other person is having someone who is only considering them without signing before the last cycle, I don't really know what they were doing up to that point.

Posted by dacj501 on 10/4/2012 2:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by udm_mike on 10/3/2012 7:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 10/3/2012 2:39:00 PM (view original):
why is it "poor form" to make a move when it is most likely to be impactful (ie last cycle before signings)? Isn't the goal to get the best recruits for your school by whatever (legal) means necessary? Its not my primary recruiting method, but if the situation dictates it, I won't hesitate. 

It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth an I'd never do it to anyone that hadn't done it to me first. 

seems like you are limiting yourself, but it is your right to do so. I won't/don't remember who does it when it happens to me...

dac, i totally understand where you are coming from, but i also can recognize the sentiment much of the community shares about last-cycle "poaching". its not cheating or underhanded, but it definitely sucks when it happens. i think the reality is that most coaches with a decent amount of d1 experience have come to accept last cycle moves as a normal (and maybe even necessary) part of the game).

but, there are still plenty of predominantly d2/d3 coaches (or newer guys with 0 d1 exp). its pretty normal to have never poached last cycle, or been poached, in your first 20 or 30 seasons of d2/d3 play. so your first experience can be pretty brutal and unexpected. it definitely sucks the second time it happens to you to :) and i totally get the bad taste in the mouth thing. knowing a bit earlier could help so much. in d1, recruiting is so competitive, you really need that cushion of having your recruits sign BEFORE you show your hand. but in d2/d3, that is much less the case, so there is much less appreciation for why people would do something that so significantly hurts the other coach.

i definitely try to avoid it myself, when i have the luxury, but i probably do it more than most coaches. i think its a really strong play, and i do pay a little mind to my competition - especially in d2 - i usually will only resort to last cycle poaching against a serious competitor, where i feel i could be negatively impacted by going early (a rookie/less competitive coach is less likely to put up a fight), and also, where i expect the rival coach to have a "big boy" attitude. but i don't think i've ever done it in conference, and would be VERY hesitant to ever do it, and i certainly try not to do it to poor unsuspecting d2/d3 coaches.

anyway, not really arguing with anything you said, but it seems to me (through your posts in maybe 4 threads like this) that you aren't really seeing where these other guys are coming from. so i figured id just try to explain that perspective :) 

thanks cbg, and I guess all that's true and I sort of get where everyone is coming from. I'm not saying I try to do this every time, but there are many scenarios where its the best play. Maybe I'm the bigger school or the BCS school with more cash, but I also may have other recruits that I am afraid someone else will jump on, so I wait til the last second before making any offensive moves in case I need to protect my other targets...even that can backfire if I go last cycle before signings and someone else chooses the same time/reason to come for me...its all part of the strategy of it...

Of course I've gotten ****** off when its happened to me. Search back for threads I created and you'll find one thread where I was so cocksure I'd win a battle I even posted a what is this guy doing type thread, then on the last cycle before signings the other guy blitzed me and signed the kid out from under me. That was a battle I knew about of course (I had knocked the other guy off the considering list however before that last cycle and was on him by myself) but I know all about the frustration of getting "poached" as well. I guess I've just come to accept it and try to figure out how to use it like any other tool when necessary.