and I want my 10k for recruiting for my Miami team in Warner.  Jibe is taking all the good players in FL. WAAAAAAAAAA!

Posted by tenaciousdx on 7/10/2012 11:59:00 AM (view original):
and I want my 10k for recruiting for my Miami team in Warner.  Jibe is taking all the good players in FL. WAAAAAAAAAA!

I only wish there was no competition in Florida.

Perhaps the tip with Miami could be cut off and sent floating off towards Cuba or Jamaica. Hatti would work too.lol

Posted by jibe on 7/10/2012 12:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tenaciousdx on 7/10/2012 11:59:00 AM (view original):
and I want my 10k for recruiting for my Miami team in Warner.  Jibe is taking all the good players in FL. WAAAAAAAAAA!

I only wish there was no competition in Florida.

Perhaps the tip with Miami could be cut off and sent floating off towards Cuba or Jamaica. Hatti would work too.lol

There's a circumcision joke there for anyone who wants it...

grindi is obsfucating the issue. If its payback, which it clearly and admittedly is, and he is using the innate advantage OF A HIGHER LEVEL (which is the key here) I think its griefing. If they were both d2, it would be fair competition. I have no problem with poaching (having gotten poached by dylandash 4 years in a row without complaining)

Posted by kilgo on 7/10/2012 12:26:00 PM (view original):
grindi is obsfucating the issue. If its payback, which it clearly and admittedly is, and he is using the innate advantage OF A HIGHER LEVEL (which is the key here) I think its griefing. If they were both d2, it would be fair competition. I have no problem with poaching (having gotten poached by dylandash 4 years in a row without complaining)

Bull crap. Is DIA  going after DIAA recruits griefing?  That meets your higher level advantage.  Damaulers team is Rated #1 in DII.  He is seeing DIAA recruits.  A DIAA team has every right to those recruits.  It isn't like any of the guys zed went after were DII recruits.  At DIAA I've had DIA teams go after and take my recruits that said in the scouting report that they weren't DIA material.  According to you that isn't right.  Bunk.  I saw a post on here not long ago where one of the top managers said to look at ALL the lower level recruits because every now and then you find an STL that can be very good in his Jr and Sr yr.  You guys are looking at this like Zed is using these picks for his main guys.  Look at the whole class.   With 20 Scholies to fill he doesn't need nor will he get 20 stars.  He picked guys to fill in the rest of his scholies from DIAA recruits that were considered good by THE TOP DII teams in his World.  I'm surprised more teams don't poach from top teams below them instead of taking SIMs when money starts running short.  For me if I like the top managers I might take take 1 guy form here and one from there.  If the guy is jerk I might take all his OLs or DLs depending what might help me.  Griefing, I don't think so.  Paybacks a *****.  By what you say a person doesn't have a right to retaliate against a guy that screws him.  So as long as you screw another manager first it is ok.  That is f ed up thinking there.

Posted by grindi on 7/10/2012 3:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kilgo on 7/10/2012 12:26:00 PM (view original):
grindi is obsfucating the issue. If its payback, which it clearly and admittedly is, and he is using the innate advantage OF A HIGHER LEVEL (which is the key here) I think its griefing. If they were both d2, it would be fair competition. I have no problem with poaching (having gotten poached by dylandash 4 years in a row without complaining)

Bull crap. Is DIA  going after DIAA recruits griefing?  That meets your higher level advantage.  Damaulers team is Rated #1 in DII.  He is seeing DIAA recruits.  A DIAA team has every right to those recruits.  It isn't like any of the guys zed went after were DII recruits.  At DIAA I've had DIA teams go after and take my recruits that said in the scouting report that they weren't DIA material.  According to you that isn't right.  Bunk.  I saw a post on here not long ago where one of the top managers said to look at ALL the lower level recruits because every now and then you find an STL that can be very good in his Jr and Sr yr.  You guys are looking at this like Zed is using these picks for his main guys.  Look at the whole class.   With 20 Scholies to fill he doesn't need nor will he get 20 stars.  He picked guys to fill in the rest of his scholies from DIAA recruits that were considered good by THE TOP DII teams in his World.  I'm surprised more teams don't poach from top teams below them instead of taking SIMs when money starts running short.  For me if I like the top managers I might take take 1 guy form here and one from there.  If the guy is jerk I might take all his OLs or DLs depending what might help me.  Griefing, I don't think so.  Paybacks a *****.  By what you say a person doesn't have a right to retaliate against a guy that screws him.  So as long as you screw another manager first it is ok.  That is f ed up thinking there.

but  you don't need to poach at DIAA as there are always undecideds at every position late into recruiting.  Wouldn't an undecided be cheaper than traveling across the country to take a recruit from a top tier DII team?

Posted by moranis on 7/10/2012 3:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by grindi on 7/10/2012 3:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kilgo on 7/10/2012 12:26:00 PM (view original):
grindi is obsfucating the issue. If its payback, which it clearly and admittedly is, and he is using the innate advantage OF A HIGHER LEVEL (which is the key here) I think its griefing. If they were both d2, it would be fair competition. I have no problem with poaching (having gotten poached by dylandash 4 years in a row without complaining)

Bull crap. Is DIA  going after DIAA recruits griefing?  That meets your higher level advantage.  Damaulers team is Rated #1 in DII.  He is seeing DIAA recruits.  A DIAA team has every right to those recruits.  It isn't like any of the guys zed went after were DII recruits.  At DIAA I've had DIA teams go after and take my recruits that said in the scouting report that they weren't DIA material.  According to you that isn't right.  Bunk.  I saw a post on here not long ago where one of the top managers said to look at ALL the lower level recruits because every now and then you find an STL that can be very good in his Jr and Sr yr.  You guys are looking at this like Zed is using these picks for his main guys.  Look at the whole class.   With 20 Scholies to fill he doesn't need nor will he get 20 stars.  He picked guys to fill in the rest of his scholies from DIAA recruits that were considered good by THE TOP DII teams in his World.  I'm surprised more teams don't poach from top teams below them instead of taking SIMs when money starts running short.  For me if I like the top managers I might take take 1 guy form here and one from there.  If the guy is jerk I might take all his OLs or DLs depending what might help me.  Griefing, I don't think so.  Paybacks a *****.  By what you say a person doesn't have a right to retaliate against a guy that screws him.  So as long as you screw another manager first it is ok.  That is f ed up thinking there.

but  you don't need to poach at DIAA as there are always undecideds at every position late into recruiting.  Wouldn't an undecided be cheaper than traveling across the country to take a recruit from a top tier DII team?

Beauty is very much in the eyes of the beholder. Could zed have picked up cheaper and better backups. Sure thats possible. However he chose the path he did. Who are we to tell him who he should recruit?

As for grindi's point. I too recall some of the best coaches in the game stataing that even at 1A when they type in their search numbers they would also search all levels. This from division 1A.

I also recall many seasons ago, something like 3 years ago, I was at Concordia in Dobie which is DII. nelsonba was at west georgia. He had a top program and mine was still up and coming. He had better vision and prestige without a doubt. We locked in on an OL I believe. Anyway the day of signings Rice jumped on him from 1A on a DII recruit. So its not uncommon that guys drop down on recruits. Did Rice grief us or was he just out trying to get a better player than his AC would have signed as zed stated? I would not have signed the player if I was at Rice but that is my preference.

Paybacks from another level is just griefing.  There is really no other way to say it.  You can rationalize it all you want.  Maybe the D1AA team is competitive, maybe its not.  I have no dogs in this fight.  I don't play in Stagg anymore.  I don't particularly care if damauler's team is devastated.  I don't care what method Zedicus uses to target his recruits.  What is truly important here is the intent of the aggressor.  Was he really overcome with D1A dropdowns or was it just an excuse to go after his nemesis?  D1A dropdowns into D1AA aren't the same as D1AA dropdowns into D2!!!  I originally gave Zed the benefit of the doubt that he didn't quite understand how to recruit at D1AA but having read his messages in a couple threads,  I think we have a clearer view of the situation.  From what I have read from both sides of the argument, these things ring true:

• Damauler and Zedicus are arch-rivals. 
• Historically, in this one world, Damauler has had the upper hand more often than not.
• Zedicus had enough and moved up to the next level in the same geographic area as Damauler.
• As a result, Zedicus has access to higher levels of prestige and money advantages that he didn't have when they were in the same division.
• Zedicus now uses the excuse of D1A schools taking his "high" priority targets to find "suitable" alternatives.
• Those alternatives are often the targets of his arch-rival's d2 powerhouse and he presses all the advantages to "even the score".
• Zedicus signs those players because if he doesn't then Damauler will end up signing those players and nothing has changed. 
• With good cores amongst the signed players, he and his brother attempt to argue the practicality of the tactic to avoid the community backlash.

Recruit how you want.  Play this game how you want.  But when you start playing with the focus of using unfair advantages to destroy someone else's team/dynasty, you have crossed the line.  I know Norbert has already ruled that this incident wasn't griefing but I think he is wrong. Coaches used to get banned for this sort of behavior and I will be very disappointed if this sort of thing continues to be tolerated in the future.

Originally, I gave zed the benefit of the doubt.  After reading more in this thread and another, I think the intent is pretty clear.  This act was one of revenge and the arguments to the contrary are just a smokescreen.

All I can say is zed targeted DIAA recruits.  It took no scouting on his part as a VERY GOOD TEAM had them.  Zed also got a couple other recruits from top DII managers.  Here is the way I see it.  Danaulers team is #1 in DII.  Logic says he has THE BEST recruits available and is signing them.  They ARE DIAA guys.  Why not fill out your roster using them?  If it were me and Damauler got in my sights, I'd pull the trigger.  I don't like him and he don't like me.  Do you think for 1 second Damauler would cut me or Zed any slack if things were reversed?  NO FREAKING WAY.  That the top team happened to be Damauler was just gravy for zed.  He could have took more from the 2, 3 and 4 teams, but those guys were better or at least as good.  Hammering Damauler was just gravy.  I'm telling you guys ahead of time that if I'm in the same position and you've been an *** to me...I'm knocking your d- -k in the dirt.  I'm not going out deliberatly to do it and I don't think zed did either but,when opportunity knocks....slam bam thank you maam.  Poor Damuler.  Someone did to him what he's been doing to others for a long time.  Too bad.   You already don't like zed or me and you don't even know us so what the f difference does it make.  You gonna hate us more?  You gonna trash us more?  Too bad.  I can go after ANY recruit I want.  I can take them away at signing as many of you guys do and told me to do.  It isn't griefing.  It isn't griefing when a DIA takes a DIAA player so how can you condemn a DIAA manager for getting a DIAA player?  It's just gravy if the guy you got it from has been an *** to you.  Tell me that the rest of you wouldn't do the same thing and I'l call you a liar.

zed and grindi are admitting griefing on this thread. Hypothetical, if I sign 6 recruits from a d2 team while at d1aa, and I said I did it as payback for previous battles when I was at d2, how is that not griefing?

Zed should be looking at the banhammer for this. Argue all you want about how its fair, but yoru argument stinks because grindi is full of it.

Also, everyone knows the difference in talent pools between d1a and d1aa is much smaller than d1aa to d2. But I don't want to get pulled into grindi's very poor arguments

@jibe, he did it to 6 players from a person he had history with. I have no problem with 1 or even 2, but 6 shows clear griefing intent

totally agree with kilgo

the good news is now that we know if you actually sign the person it isn't griefing, the floodgates have opened for griefing people we don't like legally!  everyone can now get zed/grindi/gino and not get banned! hooray!  thanks norbert!

You're full of crap.  That the #1 team lost 6 players is too bad.  Look at the players.  They were DIAA, High potential guys.  And what you guys think are good players and what I or zed or joe blow may think are good players are totally different.  Use your brain.  Zeds team was a 13 season SIM.  Most DII humans would have an easy time beating it.  ANY established DIAA team not to mention any DIA team is going to get the better players.  Last season zed got 5 blue chippers.   He let the AC coach pick 5 to fill out his roster.  This season he was looking at 8-10 AC picks.  Where can a coach go to find usable talent cheap?  Where can he be reletively certain he is getting a good recruit WITHOUT having to scout 3 guys to get one?  That it was Damauler is icing on the cake.  So the guys he got from Damauler you call griefing but the guys he got from others isn't?  Zed has to win games to get prestige so he can battle other DIAAs.  He only has to get good enough to beat the teams in his conf and THE TEAMS HE PICKS TO PLAY OOC.   Since any good DII team  can beat most DIAA SIMs why not use your dollars down there where the good DII teams lurk?  You save money to go after a few better players and get useable guys for your purpose.  If the guy at DII is someone you don't like, who out there wouldn't kill two birds with one stone?  Hypothetically let's say I'm in that position and the top 5 teams are Damauler, Jibe, Jtwhiz, Gino, and Bhouska.  Who do you think I'm gonna pull from?  I like Jibe, Gino and Bhouska.  Greifing.  Nope.  But I can'r stand the other 2 so why would I pull from the 3 guys I like?  Zed did not like taking the guys from the other 2 managers but I can say he didn't shed a tear for Damauler.  Why would he? 

One good thing about all this is I've sent the message and so has zed.  You want to poach our recruits go ahead but don't be surprised if someday you line up in our sights and we can better our teams and get paybacks to boot.  Our policy used to be we left everybody alone.  Some of you took advantage of that and then kicked sand in our face.  Maybe you'll think twice before you do it again and maybe you won't.  It's up to you.  You want to be jerks to us fine.  We can be that way too.  We are tired of turning the other cheek to you bullies.  You reap what you sow and some of you have flat out ****** us off.

Grindi, please stop treating us like idiots. We know how to play this game, and likely better than you do. You use a lot of words and don't say much new. Rhetorical questions don't help you sound smart. 

" So the guys he got from Damauler you call griefing but the guys he got from others isn't?"
Yes, definitely. If you grab 1 from someone, it may not be griefing. if you grab 6 from someone you had beef with and used the prestige and resources of a higher level to do it, I think it's griefing. Then when you admit it was motivated by your feelings towards the person, its definite.

And please shutup about d1a guys getting you at d1aa, thats what happens at d1aa and everyone knows it. It is very rare in d2 (though it does happen). It never happens 6 times in one cycle from one team. I recruit at the highest level of d2 yost and I can count on 1 hand the times a d1aa has signed a top d2 non special team player

Also Norbert, I think you seriously screwed the pooch on this one. This should of been labeled griefing and it would have laid down down a clear example of what is right and what is wrong. Now you've opened a whole new can of worms.

While I'm not currently playing GD, I did have some level of success when I did play.  I attribute (now and then) that success to the great mentors I had.  3-4 coaches really influenced just about everything I did with my teams, but I also bounced questions off of and had a lot of strategy discussions with another 15-20 of the best coaches in the game, about all aspects of the game.

I lay that foundation to say this.  I can guarantee that not a single one of those coaches would advise what was done here as a valid strategy for winning.  The very first thing to understand about being a successful recruiter (beyond knowing what a "good" recruit is), IMO, is to have a backup plan.   You pick your battles, knowing that the better talent is going to be contested and you have to have options in case your primary targets get out of your reach.

But let's get crazy, let's say ALL your primary targets get taken out of your price range...along with ALL of your backup targets.  That seems ridiculous for a recruiter with any kind of experience, but let's just suppose that's what happened.  How on earth, is your first recourse not to look for the top undecided recruits in your vision?  Instead, you look a division below you?  And then, rather than do the research yourself, you look for the players that the top teams in that division are recruiting and just decide to go after them?

I guess I could sort of understand a rationale of:  Well, after my plans fell apart, I searched out the best alternatives that were either undecided or that were currently leaning toward signing with a team that I had a distinct recruiting advantage over, be it prestige, distance or being in a higher division.   But just going directly to the recruits of the top teams in the division below you...

Look, I don't know either of the coaches involved in this, but I just don't see any logic in what the D1-AA team did.  Most of these "foul play" threads I just read for laughs, but the actions taken here...and then the poor attempt at justifying them...I had to get my two cents in.