Appreciate the help.

Thanks
Tim

although I would argue against any list of predetermined elite, WIS should at least update it, especially now that PSU has imploded in real life.

That remains to be seen.  Elite status is more than recent results and popular opinion.  Elite status is the ability of a program to attract top caliber kids with its tradition and culture.  Notre Dame hasn't been nationally relevant for years and years and yet, in early recruiting rankings for next year, they are currently bringing in the #4 class in the nation.  Why?  Because they have an elite program regardless of popular opinion and recent success (or lack thereof).

With the tide of negativity against the school in general and the NCAA sanctions aimed at the football program, Penn State's culture should be blown up.  You would think that it would be impossible to attract top talent with all that school has to go through over the next few years.  But I don't think we know for sure.  I certainly don't think it is important enough for Norbert to take time out of his GD3.0 development.

They've circled the wagons and will probably stick together for now.  Wait until they get through this year.  There could be a lot of fellas jumping ship after the season (players can leave at any time before the 2013 season) and then we'll see what kind of recruits they bring in.  If the promise of November away games in Hawaii doesn't work, then perhaps we can reopen the "remove PSU's elite status" issue again in a year or two.

Posted by cydrych on 7/26/2012 10:31:00 AM (view original):
That remains to be seen.  Elite status is more than recent results and popular opinion.  Elite status is the ability of a program to attract top caliber kids with its tradition and culture.  Notre Dame hasn't been nationally relevant for years and years and yet, in early recruiting rankings for next year, they are currently bringing in the #4 class in the nation.  Why?  Because they have an elite program regardless of popular opinion and recent success (or lack thereof).

With the tide of negativity against the school in general and the NCAA sanctions aimed at the football program, Penn State's culture should be blown up.  You would think that it would be impossible to attract top talent with all that school has to go through over the next few years.  But I don't think we know for sure.  I certainly don't think it is important enough for Norbert to take time out of his GD3.0 development.

They've circled the wagons and will probably stick together for now.  Wait until they get through this year.  There could be a lot of fellas jumping ship after the season (players can leave at any time before the 2013 season) and then we'll see what kind of recruits they bring in.  If the promise of November away games in Hawaii doesn't work, then perhaps we can reopen the "remove PSU's elite status" issue again in a year or two.

I agree with this, but let's be clear, I don't think Penn State will have all that much difficultly landing players as long as they don't try to overreach.  I can't imagine it signing players that are also be recruited by the Ohio State, Michigan, etc. of the world, but I wouldn't be surprised if they still land kids over the Pittsburgh's of the world and certainly the kids aren't going to go to Temple over Penn State at least not right now.  Now sure if PSU is going 2-10 in three years, it might be different, but if they stay in the 6-6 range the will be fine as they still play in the Big Ten, they still play before 100k, they still get a lot of television time (especially in Penn), etc.  I mean this isn't like Temple got hit with these penalties.  It is Penn State and it will survive, it just might take awhile.  If in three years they are awful and don't appear to be getting better then perhaps we can revisit it, but WIS hasn't done that with Tennessee, which hasn't been truly relevant in a long time.

Some notable VA tech wins.  If anything; replace Miami with VA Tech as an elite.  Miami has been Techs "Bich" for a very long time!

VIRGINIA TECH 38, ALABAMA 7
December 29, 1998

VIRGINIA TECH 37, TENNESSEE 14
December 31, 2009

at., Sep 19, 2009 #13 #19 Nebraska W, 16-15
Sat., Sep 26, 2009 #11 #9 Miami * W, 31-7
Sat., Sep 27, 2008 at Nebraska W, 35-30
Sat., Nov 10, 2007 #11 Florida State * W, 40-21
Sat., Nov 17, 2007 #10 Miami * W, 44-14
Sat., Dec 4, 2004 #10 at #9 Miami * W, 16-10
Sat., Nov 1, 2003 #10 #2 Miami * W, 31-7
Sun., Sep 1, 2002 #16 #14 LSU W, 26-8
Sat., Nov 13, 1999 #2 #19 Miami * W, 43-10
Sat., Sep 19, 1998 at Miami * W, 27-20 (OT)
Sat., Nov 8, 1997 #20 Miami * W, 27-25
Sat., Nov 16, 1996 #21 at #18 Miami * W, 21-7
Sat., Sep 23, 1995 #17 Miami * W, 13-7

I still don't think Va Tech is elite. Neither are Boise or Oklahoma State. They are solid programs, but they don't have the same "aura" and recruiting capability of Bama, USC, Texas, and yes, Miami.

Posted by caesari on 8/18/2012 2:59:00 PM (view original):
I still don't think Va Tech is elite. Neither are Boise or Oklahoma State. They are solid programs, but they don't have the same "aura" and recruiting capability of Bama, USC, Texas, and yes, Miami.

Well Boise would beat Miami and Texas and probably make it look easy, so it really makes no difference  about bringing in top talent. Texas has had top classes every season yet looked like garbage last season. Now either the top talent they brought in were busts or they suck at developing talent.

Posted by tampafla on 8/18/2012 5:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by caesari on 8/18/2012 2:59:00 PM (view original):
I still don't think Va Tech is elite. Neither are Boise or Oklahoma State. They are solid programs, but they don't have the same "aura" and recruiting capability of Bama, USC, Texas, and yes, Miami.

Well Boise would beat Miami and Texas and probably make it look easy, so it really makes no difference  about bringing in top talent. Texas has had top classes every season yet looked like garbage last season. Now either the top talent they brought in were busts or they suck at developing talent.

Elites advantage in this game are for recruiting, not for results.  I don't know why this concept is so difficult for players to understand.

That's my point. Just because you are better than a certain team does not necessarily change the fact that they are elite and you are not.

At any rate, the list of elites ought to be added to the GD's Guide to the Game thread, if it isn't already, or perhaps just pinned up in it's own thread by itself. That would be extremely helpful.

I don't see hoe having elites helps this game at all.

Posted by mb625 on 8/19/2012 12:39:00 AM (view original):
At any rate, the list of elites ought to be added to the GD's Guide to the Game thread, if it isn't already, or perhaps just pinned up in it's own thread by itself. That would be extremely helpful.

Just saw this.

Next time, don't worry about all that copying and pasting. You should totally let someone else do it. 

Posted by dconrod on 8/22/2012 9:47:00 PM (view original):
I don't see hoe having elites helps this game at all.

it doesnt exactly help the game but it helps for the impression of "real life" teams reflect that over here.  

though I do think there should be 2 different levels of BCS teams if it really wants to be consistent with real life.  teams like the ones below have won on the big stage in recent history and have a little more pull then the lower half BCS teams

beast: Pitt, Syracuse,  west VA,
acc: VaTech, clemson, GT
sec: Georgia, Auburn, arkansas
B12: aTm, Kstate, colorado
B10: wisco, mich st, iowa
Pac10: UCLA, oregon, washington, BYU, ASU
others: TCU, BOISE, UTAH, 

others thats have had big moments but may or may not fall short:  USC (east),  Mizzou,  Minnesota, NCst, Maryland, purdue, Hawaii, houston,  TT, louisville, OKIE st, arizona, CAL, stanford, northwestern

I know Ive forgotten a few so others chime in and add.  

after lookin at this list and think about real life the PAC10 has had just about everyone have big seasons the last 25 yrs,  they have to be best conference for parity.

AZ = had desert storm with some killer Ds in the 90s
ASU = jake the snake.
usc = self explanatory
UCLA = some great teams the wons some rose bowls
CAL = lots and lots of talent but did they ever finish in the top 10?  I cant remember
Stanford = touchdown tommy yrs and andrew luck yrs
OSU = werent they the big oregon team before Phil Knight made autzen what it is now
Oregon = sel explanatory
wash st = didnt they finish in the top 5 during the "ryan leaf" yrs
wash = a couple of rose bowl teams

then add in UTAH (recently) and colorado (1990 natl title)