Lowering the barrier to entry would allow owners who don't care about the game to try it for a week and bail.  If you invest into this program, you are certainly far more inclined to stick with it.  Bad idea.

Because there's no way in hell I read all that, I take from the first response the idea is "Make it cheaper".

Horrible idea.   You buy a $25 steak, it doesn't tsste right, you either send it back or just eat it.   $5 hamburger is thrown in the trash and you pick up another down the street.    Same concept with HBD.    You want owners that don't just throw it in the trash after two bites.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/26/2015 5:25:00 AM (view original):
Because there's no way in hell I read all that, I take from the first response the idea is "Make it cheaper".

Horrible idea.   You buy a $25 steak, it doesn't tsste right, you either send it back or just eat it.   $5 hamburger is thrown in the trash and you pick up another down the street.    Same concept with HBD.    You want owners that don't just throw it in the trash after two bites.

No, no , no.  He's not suggesting "make it cheaper".  It's MUCH worse than that.

He's suggesting that the game be free, but if you want "extras", that you pay for them.  Kind of an "a la carte" menu of options.

The game itself is free.  You want to play in the IFA market?  That will cost you $4.95.  You want to participate in the draft?  That will be $7.95.  Simmy will manage your minors for free, but if you want the ability to manage your minors yourself (activate/inactivate players, set pitching rotations, set lineups, etc), you've got to pay $4.95 to have that feature enabled for you.

Good thing I didn't waste my time reading it.   Yeah, way worse.    Nothing like having owners come in on a real life budget and be unable to fully participate in the game.   Then, because it's FREE, say "Screw this" and leave a franchise to finish that last 160 games of the season. 

Jesus.

The "freemium" model.  Jezus. 

How many free apps have I loaded into my iOS device?  Couple hundred.

How many in-app purchases have I ever made?  Zero.  Not a cent.  NEVER WILL.

If it's free, I better feel like I'm getting 90% of the gameplay or I'll junk it.  And I'll play though it to get the other 10 percent.

If I can tell right away I'm not getting the 90%, it's dust.

The only market you actually make money off of is the suckers who allow themselves to become in-app addicts.  So you're making 90% of the money off 10% of the potential market.  It's a gambling model.

I never gamble anywhere.  Not part of my DNA, thankfully.  If this were a gambling website, I'd never have come here.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/26/2015 5:25:00 AM (view original):
Because there's no way in hell I read all that, I take from the first response the idea is "Make it cheaper".

Horrible idea.   You buy a $25 steak, it doesn't tsste right, you either send it back or just eat it.   $5 hamburger is thrown in the trash and you pick up another down the street.    Same concept with HBD.    You want owners that don't just throw it in the trash after two bites.

You're not responding to the question.  Please delete your post.  I'd like to try to keep this on the topic. If there are not replies, then it will die.

Posted by cshake93 on 6/26/2015 2:29:00 AM (view original):
Lowering the barrier to entry would allow owners who don't care about the game to try it for a week and bail.  If you invest into this program, you are certainly far more inclined to stick with it.  Bad idea.

You missed my point. The path to long-term HBD success is to create a way in that, even if the person never logs in again, doesn't hurt anyone else.  At least no more than in a trivial way.

I agree with you if HBD must work as it does today. If you are saying you can't dream of any other way an MLB simulation could work, then thanks for your comment.  Please don't comment again.  Thanks.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/26/2015 9:33:00 AM (view original):
Good thing I didn't waste my time reading it.   Yeah, way worse.    Nothing like having owners come in on a real life budget and be unable to fully participate in the game.   Then, because it's FREE, say "Screw this" and leave a franchise to finish that last 160 games of the season. 

Jesus.

Please delete your comment.  I'd like to try to keep this on the topic.

If you can't se any other way any MLB simulation could work other than exactly as it does now, how about you make that your one comment on this thread and drop out.

Thanks for your input.

Another suggestion that would lead to a mass exodus of GMs that would add to the problem

Posted by damag on 6/26/2015 9:50:00 AM (view original):
The "freemium" model.  Jezus. 

How many free apps have I loaded into my iOS device?  Couple hundred.

How many in-app purchases have I ever made?  Zero.  Not a cent.  NEVER WILL.

If it's free, I better feel like I'm getting 90% of the gameplay or I'll junk it.  And I'll play though it to get the other 10 percent.

If I can tell right away I'm not getting the 90%, it's dust.

The only market you actually make money off of is the suckers who allow themselves to become in-app addicts.  So you're making 90% of the money off 10% of the potential market.  It's a gambling model.

I never gamble anywhere.  Not part of my DNA, thankfully.  If this were a gambling website, I'd never have come here.

You are mostly correct.

The vast majority of people who download a free app and signup for a free game don't spend much, if any, time playing the game.

Of those who dive into the game, the vast majority of them never spend $1.

Those few that do spend money on those games spend games spend millions and millions and millions of dollars a year.  And thus those games are updated and improved and maintained continually. For the benefit of those who play for free and those who spend money.

I don't think EA Sports publishes income by game by category. So we don't know how much they make on Madden Football on disk sales, sponsorship, advertising, and in-game purchases.  I suspect they make a lot of money on the last 3.  No idea if it's more than disk sales, but I'm pretty sure it's in the many, many, many millions of dollars every year.

The reason I say you're "mostly" right is I think you veered off track when you went to it's a gambling model and you'd stop play HBD if there was anything like that here.

You might leave. For any number of reasons.

Unless you left in a huff the day a change was made, I doubt that if you still enjoyed the game and felt like you were competing, you'd leave.  If you were having as good as or a better time every time you logged in the website, why would you leave?

I believe that you have never spent $1 on in-game purchases (kind of... I'd bet $1 if I had access to your phone or credit card statement I'd find 1 or 2.... let's agree you spend almost nothing, and maybe really nothing. Ever. Not once.)

Question:  Do you really understand (1) You are not everybody?  (2) Everybody isn't you?

The gaming market has spoken.  You might not like what it has to say.  You might not like gravity, either.  And your dislike has exactly the same impact on both.

I'm suspect you've never played any other strategy games run on the free to play or pay to play with in-game purchases model.  If you had, you probably would not be as dismissive of the idea.

You might not see any way for an MLB simulation to work on either of those models.  I can't argue with that.  If that's how it is, thanks for your input.

Posted by bfkfraser on 6/26/2015 7:00:00 PM (view original):
Another suggestion that would lead to a mass exodus of GMs that would add to the problem

Why?

Please don't give any examples that require HBD to work exactly as it does now.  The question is what would have to change so that models that have been proven to be massively successful could be applied to an MLB simulation.

If you don't have any, or can't defend that no matter what was done with an MLB simulation, it could never work any other way then exactly how HBD works today, please make that post and delete your last post. I'd like to keep this thread on topic.  Thanks.

Posted by tecwrg on 6/26/2015 9:29:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/26/2015 5:25:00 AM (view original):
Because there's no way in hell I read all that, I take from the first response the idea is "Make it cheaper".

Horrible idea.   You buy a $25 steak, it doesn't tsste right, you either send it back or just eat it.   $5 hamburger is thrown in the trash and you pick up another down the street.    Same concept with HBD.    You want owners that don't just throw it in the trash after two bites.

No, no , no.  He's not suggesting "make it cheaper".  It's MUCH worse than that.

He's suggesting that the game be free, but if you want "extras", that you pay for them.  Kind of an "a la carte" menu of options.

The game itself is free.  You want to play in the IFA market?  That will cost you $4.95.  You want to participate in the draft?  That will be $7.95.  Simmy will manage your minors for free, but if you want the ability to manage your minors yourself (activate/inactivate players, set pitching rotations, set lineups, etc), you've got to pay $4.95 to have that feature enabled for you.

IMO, your prices are crazy high, but your on the track of the idea I'd like to get input on.

Free to start is one option.

So is to pay some amount to start.  And then there are opportunities to pay to get stuff today that you'd get if you put in more time.  Pay for shortcuts.

Another possibility is something like you propose.  Again, IMO the amounts are WAY too high. And I doubt it would work if every extra thing had to be paid for, instead of paying one amount to unlock several capabilities.

Thanks.

4 replies so far. All of which didn't get a point I tried to make in the first post. So let me try again.

Please don't make any posts explaining why you think it's a bad idea to let people play the current HBD game, exactly as it is today, for free.  Or for cheap with in-game purchases.

I agree with you.  Even if I didn't, that's not the topic.

Do you have any suggestions on how an MLB simulation could work under any other model than exactly how HBD works today.

• be fun to play for newbies and pros,
• result in more people playing the game at some level (some of those people would move up to higher levels of play),
• and make the game owner enough money to allow for ongoing improvements and maintenance.

If you have no ideas, or feel compelled to post that free or cheap to play this exact game is a bad idea, please don't post.  You are correct.

Thanks.

Posted by tufft on 6/26/2015 6:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cshake93 on 6/26/2015 2:29:00 AM (view original):
Lowering the barrier to entry would allow owners who don't care about the game to try it for a week and bail.  If you invest into this program, you are certainly far more inclined to stick with it.  Bad idea.

You missed my point. The path to long-term HBD success is to create a way in that, even if the person never logs in again, doesn't hurt anyone else.  At least no more than in a trivial way.

I agree with you if HBD must work as it does today. If you are saying you can't dream of any other way an MLB simulation could work, then thanks for your comment.  Please don't comment again.  Thanks.

Arguing with you is pointless because you are so blind to logic.

I'm not saying I can't dream of any other way that an MLB simulation could work.  But I am saying that it needs to cost this much money from the get go, with all the features available to everybody who signs up, to be successful.  Look around at the other WIS leagues - cheaper, and with way less interest.  If you have to pay for more features of the game as you go, above a baseline "free" package, then you can have more opportunities to succeed than I can simply if you have more money than me.  Your suggestion just would not work in a way that would present a level playing field to all GMs.

As I said, arguing with you is a practice in futility, as history has shown that you'll just ignore all of my points and say that there is no logic behind them.  That makes me really not want to comment on your threads, but I do with the hope that somehow something will get through to you in one of these posts.