Free To Play Topic

MikeT23
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Good luck with that.   You saw what happens.

6/26/2015 7:36 PM
cshake93
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tufft, what a flawed argument.  You're saying, "if HBD were totally different than it is now, then we could totally change the payment infrastructure."  Unless you have ideas for a new and incredibly different league, then stop talking about this league that doesn't exist.  Irrelevant.
6/26/2015 7:38 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by tufft on 6/26/2015 7:33:00 PM (view original):
4 replies so far. All of which didn't get a point I tried to make in the first post. So let me try again.

Please don't make any posts explaining why you think it's a bad idea to let people play the current HBD game, exactly as it is today, for free.  Or for cheap with in-game purchases.

I agree with you.  Even if I didn't, that's not the topic.

Do you have any suggestions on how an MLB simulation could work under any other model than exactly how HBD works today.
  • be fun to play for newbies and pros,
  • result in more people playing the game at some level (some of those people would move up to higher levels of play),
  • and make the game owner enough money to allow for ongoing improvements and maintenance.

If you have no ideas, or feel compelled to post that free or cheap to play this exact game is a bad idea, please don't post.  You are correct.

Thanks.

Here's what you want:

You have a free game, say RBI Baseball(which was good back in the day, haven't played the newer versions).     You get the Phillies.  They play the Red Sox only.   That's your free game.    You want access to other players, other teams, other owners to compete against, you pay for them.

That said, this is a HBD suggestion forum.   Since you're not talking about HBD, I suggest you DELETE YOUR posts.   Thanks in advance.
6/26/2015 7:40 PM
tufft
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Posted by cshake93 on 6/26/2015 7:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tufft on 6/26/2015 6:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by cshake93 on 6/26/2015 2:29:00 AM (view original):
Lowering the barrier to entry would allow owners who don't care about the game to try it for a week and bail.  If you invest into this program, you are certainly far more inclined to stick with it.  Bad idea.
You missed my point. The path to long-term HBD success is to create a way in that, even if the person never logs in again, doesn't hurt anyone else.  At least no more than in a trivial way.

I agree with you if HBD must work as it does today. If you are saying you can't dream of any other way an MLB simulation could work, then thanks for your comment.  Please don't comment again.  Thanks.

Arguing with you is pointless because you are so blind to logic.

I'm not saying I can't dream of any other way that an MLB simulation could work.  But I am saying that it needs to cost this much money from the get go, with all the features available to everybody who signs up, to be successful.  Look around at the other WIS leagues - cheaper, and with way less interest.  If you have to pay for more features of the game as you go, above a baseline "free" package, then you can have more opportunities to succeed than I can simply if you have more money than me.  Your suggestion just would not work in a way that would present a level playing field to all GMs.

As I said, arguing with you is a practice in futility, as history has shown that you'll just ignore all of my points and say that there is no logic behind them.  That makes me really not want to comment on your threads, but I do with the hope that somehow something will get through to you in one of these posts.
Thanks.  Let me please make the appropriate post for you in this thread.

Feel free to copy / paste it to make it your own.

- - - -

The only way any MLB simulation could ever work is if it costs about  $25 to play a season that last about 3 months.  (First seasons can be discounted or free with a coupon or code).  No in-game purchases.

[feel free to add any other specific here]

- - - -

Maybe some day you'll open a beer, calm down, and re-read this thread.  Or show it to a grownup you trust and ask them for input (you'd learn something about yourself).

Maybe then you'll realize that i have not disagreed with you, even once. Not in this tread.

If you can't think of any way to open up an MLB simulation to more people, then that's your answer.  And I agree with you that you don't have any ideas or suggestions. And we're done.

Why have you turned this into an argument in your own mind?
6/26/2015 8:29 PM
tufft
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Posted by cshake93 on 6/26/2015 7:38:00 PM (view original):
tufft, what a flawed argument.  You're saying, "if HBD were totally different than it is now, then we could totally change the payment infrastructure."  Unless you have ideas for a new and incredibly different league, then stop talking about this league that doesn't exist.  Irrelevant.
Dude!  Stop drinking the Mike Juice.

I'm asking a question.  Throwing out a topic for discussion.

I'm not saying I have a single answer.  I'm asking if anyone else thinks they might.

Why the hostility?

6/26/2015 8:31 PM
MikeT23
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That said, this is a HBD suggestion forum.   Since you're not talking about HBD, I suggest you DELETE YOUR posts.   Thanks in advance.
6/26/2015 8:32 PM
tufft
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You have a free game, say RBI Baseball(which was good back in the day, haven't played the newer versions).     You get the Phillies.  They play the Red Sox only.   That's your free game.    You want access to other players, other teams, other owners to compete against, you pay for them.

Thanks, Mike.  First idea on the topic.

It would be cool if everyone deleted the previous posts so nobody has to weed through those to get here.

Is that your best idea for a feeder into a full-featured MLB simulation?

You get one team. You play one team.  Over and over and over.  And that's it?

Do you set your lineup? Are there different SPs?

No season (even if it's really short)?  No other teams?  No playoffs or WS? 

No new players come up for the minors next season?  No MinL at all (even if it's just a list of players you can choose to promote?)

Nobody leaves your team via FA or retires?

No trading with the other team(s)?  Even if the other teams sucked at it you you could fleece them every time?

These are questions, Mike.  You can't logically argue against a question.  You can answer them, or not, or say they are off topic.  You can't logically think I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you by asking followup questions.  OK?

6/26/2015 8:39 PM
bfkfraser
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Posted by tufft on 6/26/2015 8:31:00 PM (view original):
Posted by cshake93 on 6/26/2015 7:38:00 PM (view original):
tufft, what a flawed argument.  You're saying, "if HBD were totally different than it is now, then we could totally change the payment infrastructure."  Unless you have ideas for a new and incredibly different league, then stop talking about this league that doesn't exist.  Irrelevant.
Dude!  Stop drinking the Mike Juice.

I'm asking a question.  Throwing out a topic for discussion.

I'm not saying I have a single answer.  I'm asking if anyone else thinks they might.

Why the hostility?

Dude.  Judging by this thread (and a couple of others) drinking the mike juice is much better than drinking  the tufft juice.  Mike may be abrasive at times, but he knows what he is talking about.   Tufft, you clearly do not comprehend the errors in your thinking.   The mike juice makes people smart.  The tufft, not so much
6/26/2015 8:41 PM
tufft
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Posted by MikeT23 on 6/26/2015 8:32:00 PM (view original):
That said, this is a HBD suggestion forum.   Since you're not talking about HBD, I suggest you DELETE YOUR posts.   Thanks in advance.
This tread is about suggestions that might help morph HBD into an economically viable (perhaps booming) and challenging (for those who want to be challenged) MLB simulation.

HBD is an MLB simulation.  I'm OK with throwing this out in a forum about HBD Suggestions.

If you disagree, that's been noted. You can stop posting if you have nothing more to add.

6/26/2015 8:47 PM
tufft
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bk -- Thanks again for the input.

As I've posted above, if you don't think there is any way an MLB simulation could possibly be any better economically and have equal or better game play qualities than HBD has today, then please post that.

And then please delete your off-topic posts in this tread so you don't waste the time of others on their way to that post.  IMO, others are interested in your opinion.  Other trolls might like your other posts, but I'd like to try to keep this thread on the one topic.

Thanks.
6/26/2015 8:53 PM
bfkfraser
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To correct it for you:

This thread is about a group of suggestions that (if implemented) would morph HBD into a much less viable and even less challenging MLB simulation (driving away those of us who enjoy the challenge)

HBD is an MLB simulation.  tufft is Ok with suggesting disasterous ideas that would negatively affect HBD in this forum

If you disagree, tufft has noted it.  You can now stop posting if tufft deems you have nothing more to add Please ignore your rights as a WIS customer so WIS will hopefully not see the obviousness of this bad idea
6/26/2015 8:57 PM
bfkfraser
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These ideas are laughable.  This thread gives advantages to those who can pay more.   It should be a level playing field as far as ability to do things within the constraints of the provided budget   

Not upset that you come up with ideas.  But, please stop wasting our time with ideas that would drive the main customer base away.  Clearly, something that WIS would not want

6/26/2015 9:00 PM
cshake93
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Posted by MikeT23 on 6/26/2015 8:32:00 PM (view original):
That said, this is a HBD suggestion forum.   Since you're not talking about HBD, I suggest you DELETE YOUR posts.   Thanks in advance.
Thank you, could not agree more.  tufft is talking about a theoretical game that does not exist.  This thread does not belong in the HBD suggestion forum since it would involve creating an entirely different game.

bk, I agree with you, too.  No competitive game works if it does not begin with a level playing field, and segregating the competition based on expendable wealth is a terrible idea.
6/26/2015 9:41 PM
tufft
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Question for and about the trolls -

Why do you think the few people who assumed any implementation of a free to play / cheap to play model would mean that they would be sharing a world with people who are paying a different amount and/or can do things they can't?

The broad idea I had was some sort of HBD Light.  Feeder game of  some kind.   A way people who like games and like baseball could play a game.  Some of those people would upgrade to paying for HBD.  Well proven business model.

I realize that leaves a lot details open. That's what all I did was ask questions.  Maybe somebody had some other ideas.

What is it about the Internet Troll brain that goes right to the worst possible implementation of an idea and locks onto that as a reason that idea can't work on any level for anyone at all?

6/29/2015 6:45 PM
bfkfraser
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Posted by tufft on 6/29/2015 6:45:00 PM (view original):
Question for and about the trolls -

Why do you think the few people who assumed any implementation of a free to play / cheap to play model would mean that they would be sharing a world with people who are paying a different amount and/or can do things they can't?

The broad idea I had was some sort of HBD Light.  Feeder game of  some kind.   A way people who like games and like baseball could play a game.  Some of those people would upgrade to paying for HBD.  Well proven business model.

I realize that leaves a lot details open. That's what all I did was ask questions.  Maybe somebody had some other ideas.

What is it about the Internet Troll brain that goes right to the worst possible implementation of an idea and locks onto that as a reason that idea can't work on any level for anyone at all?

HBD player answering the troll's questions

WIS has already tried a dumbed down game that you describe.  It is the new version of GD where DIII is nowhere like the rest of GD.  the result:  the veterans who previously had teams in D III and were mentoring new coaches left, or moved up.  The new coaches grew frsutrated with an inferior product and rentention rates fell. 

I can't answer the troll's final question since I am not the troll.

I am a concerned HBD player who sees what this proposal is.  A pathway to less users

6/29/2015 7:58 PM
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