iffy inuries Topic

jimmystick
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Not sure if this one has been brought up yet or not, but....

Every sports simulation or video game I play always has crystal clear return dates on injuries.  Example: In HBD, a guy gets injured for 8 days, or 22 days, or 81 days. 

I want to see injuries where the return date is to be determined by ME, the general manager.  A guy sprains his wrist, he'll miss a minimum of 10 games, but after that you have the option to bring him back though he's not fully healthy or let him rest longer.  Of course, if you bring him back his ratings won't be fully recovered, he risks further injury making it worse, and his recovery takes longer--maybe after 10 days of rest he'll need 15 more days to fully recover, but since he's playing instead of resting it'll take 30 more days to fully recover--but at least he's in your lineup.

Taking it a step further, some injuries that may or may not require surgery can fun.  You can opt to have the surgery right away, ending his season, or let him play it out and have the surgery in the offseason, meaning he might not be ready to start spring training. 

The team doctors can give you advice all along the way, and the quality of their advice should be based on the team's medical budget.  Rest assured your $20 million budget means when your doctor says sit him for 10-12 days, he's probably spot on, but a budget of $6 million means the quack you hired could cause you to bring the guy back too soon, or leave him on the DL for longer than you should have.

12/5/2010 6:51 PM
Thunderclese
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I would also like to add to this (as with jimmy, I am unsure if this has been brought up in the past), but have more realistic affects on ratings based on injuries.  I.E. the smaller/minor injuries.  I really don't think a back spasm should affect any ratings whatsoever.  I have a 24 yr old DH in Boston Tea Party who had a back spasm, causing him to be out for 9 days (understandable), but his power went from 95 to 94.  Why?  I understand this is a minor affect, but a muscle spasm should have zero affect on ratings because it's not a tear, broken bone or surgery issue.  IMO, I believe that minor injuries of 14 days or less should not have any affect on ratings which affects long term play.  The fact that they are out of the line-up or rotation for said amount of time due to a spasm, sprain, muscle soreness should be in itself the negative affect.
12/8/2010 9:33 AM
MikeT23
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If you've ever had a sore arm, you'd know that you don't get your velocity back for quite some time.  You can play but you can't throw as hard.   Same applies to back and swinging a bat. 
12/8/2010 9:56 AM
Thunderclese
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Very temporarily.  But you still have time to get stronger once the injury is healed.  And a soreness affects it for a few days...couple weeks tops.  These injuries, as WIS puts it, have LONG term, career affecting results when ratings are messed with.

I.E.  From experience.  As a runner in college, I had a 3rd degree ankle sprain in cross country that ended my season.  I was crutch bound for 2 weeks.  However, I trained properly and ran personal bests in track a couple months later, and furthermore ran better times the following cross country season.  So by WIS logic, I shouldn't have been able to do that because the sprain should have affected my ability to play long term and never reach my potential before the injury.  Bottom line, it's BS.  Minor injuries can be healed and not have long term affects, which messing with ratings causes.
12/8/2010 11:47 AM
csherwood
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I suggested a while back that with any injury of length you should on ocassion get a notice along the lines of "John Smith is making incredible progress in his recovery and we have updated his estimated return date" or "John Smith has had a setback and we have updated his estimated return date". The frequency can be determined baed on the guy's health and makeup and your training and/or medical budgets. Maybe a 50 day injury suddenly goes to 40 or to 70. It also makes use of the 60 day DL a bit more of a gamble when a guy who is supposed to be out just around 2 months goes down...maybe you only want to use the 15 and hope he gets back early.
12/8/2010 1:10 PM
Thunderclese
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Good Suggestion, csherwood.
12/8/2010 2:20 PM
smoelheim
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Along with this, I'd like "fuzzier" return times.

If I have a guy with a strained hammy who will be out "up to 4 weeks", leave it at that. Maybe he'll only be out a week... do I risk putting him on the 15-day DL and losing a week's worth of his service? If a guy gets hurt for 1-3 months... do I put him on the 60-day, opening a 40-man roster spot? Or leave him on the 15-day so I get him back ASAP?

To know now that a player is going to be out for 161 days is kinda ridiculous.
12/8/2010 4:13 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by Thunderclese on 12/8/2010 11:47:00 AM (view original):
Very temporarily.  But you still have time to get stronger once the injury is healed.  And a soreness affects it for a few days...couple weeks tops.  These injuries, as WIS puts it, have LONG term, career affecting results when ratings are messed with.

I.E.  From experience.  As a runner in college, I had a 3rd degree ankle sprain in cross country that ended my season.  I was crutch bound for 2 weeks.  However, I trained properly and ran personal bests in track a couple months later, and furthermore ran better times the following cross country season.  So by WIS logic, I shouldn't have been able to do that because the sprain should have affected my ability to play long term and never reach my potential before the injury.  Bottom line, it's BS.  Minor injuries can be healed and not have long term affects, which messing with ratings causes.
Are you saying that HBD players NEVER regain their lost ratings?    I'm pretty sure you're mistaken.   Of course, if the player is older, they often don't.   That said, speaking from experience, older people don't recover as quickly and often never fully recover. 
12/8/2010 4:35 PM
Thunderclese
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Posted by MikeT23 on 12/8/2010 4:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Thunderclese on 12/8/2010 11:47:00 AM (view original):
Very temporarily.  But you still have time to get stronger once the injury is healed.  And a soreness affects it for a few days...couple weeks tops.  These injuries, as WIS puts it, have LONG term, career affecting results when ratings are messed with.

I.E.  From experience.  As a runner in college, I had a 3rd degree ankle sprain in cross country that ended my season.  I was crutch bound for 2 weeks.  However, I trained properly and ran personal bests in track a couple months later, and furthermore ran better times the following cross country season.  So by WIS logic, I shouldn't have been able to do that because the sprain should have affected my ability to play long term and never reach my potential before the injury.  Bottom line, it's BS.  Minor injuries can be healed and not have long term affects, which messing with ratings causes.
Are you saying that HBD players NEVER regain their lost ratings?    I'm pretty sure you're mistaken.   Of course, if the player is older, they often don't.   That said, speaking from experience, older people don't recover as quickly and often never fully recover. 
No, not NEVER.  But it does lessen the potential.  From the example above, a muscle spasm and 9 day injury drops a hitter's 95 rating for power to 94.  Most hitters peak building power by age 27.  So lets say by 27, he (without further injury, minor or major) acquires a power rating of 97 at his career peak plateau.  If it wasn't for that muscle spasm, he would have been 98.  Furthermore, his power rating when he starts declining usually around age 30 to 32, will be one point higher longer.  
12/8/2010 5:49 PM
tecwrg
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I don't remember seeing rating drops for 9 day injuries.
12/8/2010 5:55 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by Thunderclese on 12/8/2010 5:49:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/8/2010 4:35:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Thunderclese on 12/8/2010 11:47:00 AM (view original):
Very temporarily.  But you still have time to get stronger once the injury is healed.  And a soreness affects it for a few days...couple weeks tops.  These injuries, as WIS puts it, have LONG term, career affecting results when ratings are messed with.

I.E.  From experience.  As a runner in college, I had a 3rd degree ankle sprain in cross country that ended my season.  I was crutch bound for 2 weeks.  However, I trained properly and ran personal bests in track a couple months later, and furthermore ran better times the following cross country season.  So by WIS logic, I shouldn't have been able to do that because the sprain should have affected my ability to play long term and never reach my potential before the injury.  Bottom line, it's BS.  Minor injuries can be healed and not have long term affects, which messing with ratings causes.
Are you saying that HBD players NEVER regain their lost ratings?    I'm pretty sure you're mistaken.   Of course, if the player is older, they often don't.   That said, speaking from experience, older people don't recover as quickly and often never fully recover. 
No, not NEVER.  But it does lessen the potential.  From the example above, a muscle spasm and 9 day injury drops a hitter's 95 rating for power to 94.  Most hitters peak building power by age 27.  So lets say by 27, he (without further injury, minor or major) acquires a power rating of 97 at his career peak plateau.  If it wasn't for that muscle spasm, he would have been 98.  Furthermore, his power rating when he starts declining usually around age 30 to 32, will be one point higher longer.  
Would he have been a 98?  Are you sure?  How can you be sure?  
12/8/2010 6:05 PM
Thunderclese
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You are ridiculous.  As usual, you like to banter because you can, not because you have a valid point.  Move along.
12/9/2010 7:46 AM
Thunderclese
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Posted by tecwrg on 12/8/2010 5:55:00 PM (view original):
I don't remember seeing rating drops for 9 day injuries.
Yes, it happened to me because of a back spasm in Boston Tea Party.  Here is the guy... www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx
12/9/2010 7:48 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by Thunderclese on 12/9/2010 7:46:00 AM (view original):
You are ridiculous.  As usual, you like to banter because you can, not because you have a valid point.  Move along.

These are the words of someone who can't prove what they "know".   Come back when you can.

A guy who's a 97 but drops to 96 due to injury and returns to a 97 isn't a guy who would have been a 98.   You're doing 1st grade math and pretending to know what you're talking about.   Don't do that.  Makes you look dumb.

12/9/2010 8:12 AM
Thunderclese
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Posted by MikeT23 on 12/9/2010 8:12:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Thunderclese on 12/9/2010 7:46:00 AM (view original):
You are ridiculous.  As usual, you like to banter because you can, not because you have a valid point.  Move along.

These are the words of someone who can't prove what they "know".   Come back when you can.

A guy who's a 97 but drops to 96 due to injury and returns to a 97 isn't a guy who would have been a 98.   You're doing 1st grade math and pretending to know what you're talking about.   Don't do that.  Makes you look dumb.

No, it does not.  A guy who at the age of 24, and has a power rating of 95 has a better chance of getting to a potential rating of 98 rather than a player at the same age and same makeup who has a power rating of 94.  It is simple math.  There is no way to say anything is for certain on this sim engine.  My point is, over a back spasm, why lessen the chance of a player to reach greater potential?  Back to my original point, which you seem to want to purposely tangent from just because you want to prove someone is wrong, is that a minor soreness, spasm or finger sprain should not affect the long term potential of a player by dropping ratings.  Surgeries, broken bones, muscle, tendon and ligament tears are what will negatively affect potential and rightlfully should knock back players' ratings.   Furthermore, to your point above, a minor injury shouldn't affect ratings of a player at their prime, at least the young guy can recover and continue to grow, most players at the peak plateaus, cannot bonce back, which is ridiculous over a muscle spasm.
12/9/2010 8:31 AM
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