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tecwrg
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Posted by overeasy on 1/10/2011 5:35:00 PM (view original):
Why didn't you post the beginning of Knowlege Base Article #670 from which you got your quote:

"Cy Young: Innings Pitched, Earned Runs, Strikeouts, Saves, Shutouts, Wins, Losses, Team Records and Park Factor.

MVP: Runs Created, Good Plays, Poor Plays, Fielding percentage, Park Factor, Position Played (difficulty), Passed Balls (catchers only)"

Not quite as mystical now, eh?
The only part that I have seen that seems a bit wonky is when someone is using a 1B or LF who makes a ton of plus plays, they can get propped up onto the ballot when they shouldn't even be close.
I think it would be nice if they added to the player's awards list with something like this:  AL(or NL) MVP (or Cy Young) Finalist (#) with the # being where they placed 2-5 in the voting.

Listing the variables used does not in any way give you the formula.  Without knowing exactly how much weight is giving to each factor, and based on 49 seasons of experience, I'll stand by my characterization of the award and all-star process as flawed and occasionally bizarre.
1/10/2011 5:56 PM
jvford
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I'm sure you've noticed in your 49 seasons of experience that it's heavily weighted towards RC and +/- for hitters, IP and ER for pitchers.
1/10/2011 11:29 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by jvford on 1/10/2011 11:29:00 PM (view original):
I'm sure you've noticed in your 49 seasons of experience that it's heavily weighted towards RC and +/- for hitters, IP and ER for pitchers.
I have. 

Just as I'm sure that you've noticed highly productive and deserving offensive players being snubbed in favor of less offensively-productive players with gaudy defensive stats.
1/11/2011 6:08 AM
shobob
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To expand on that, it seems like you can up a player's shot at an MVP slot if you play him out of position.  It seems weird to me that you should get rewarded for playing a true CF in RF.
1/11/2011 8:34 AM
MikeT23
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You only get rewarded with wins.   So playing a true CF in RF is only a good thing if it helps you win games.   Honestly, other than saying "Jimmy Joe wins his 2nd MVP!", there's no reason to play a guy in a spot that doesn't help your team win.    It's like bouncing a player between 2B/3B/RF.   You're doing it to win games while knowing he's not making th A/S game with 30 games at each spot.
1/11/2011 8:49 AM
jvford
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Posted by tecwrg on 1/11/2011 6:08:00 AM (view original):
Posted by jvford on 1/10/2011 11:29:00 PM (view original):
I'm sure you've noticed in your 49 seasons of experience that it's heavily weighted towards RC and +/- for hitters, IP and ER for pitchers.
I have. 

Just as I'm sure that you've noticed highly productive and deserving offensive players being snubbed in favor of less offensively-productive players with gaudy defensive stats.

Correct....but not exactly bizarre.

1/11/2011 9:28 AM
tecwrg
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It's bizarre when an obvious MVP candidate is left off the ballot because of poor defense in favor of a lesser offensive player with outstanding defense, most likely because both players are playing out of position.
1/11/2011 9:44 AM
jvford
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By definition, that's not bizarre.  You know exactly why it happened (as you just explained in your example). 
1/11/2011 10:11 AM
tecwrg
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Do you understand the meaning of "bizarre"?

Just because something is explainable does not mean that it always makes sense.
1/11/2011 12:56 PM
jvford
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Posted by tecwrg on 1/11/2011 12:56:00 PM (view original):
Do you understand the meaning of "bizarre"?

Just because something is explainable does not mean that it always makes sense.
Yep.  But apparently you think it means something different.

Just because you don't agree with a result doesn't mean the result doesn't make sense.
1/11/2011 1:21 PM
jvford
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To clarify for you further........

You look at the MVP candidates.  You see one player who's offensive numbers look out of place with the other players.  You look more closely and see that he has a ton of good plays and very few errors.  Now it makes sense why he's with the other candidates.  You don't necessarily agree that it should be that way, but you understand.

Bizarre would be that you can't figure out why the player is on the list.  It doesn't make sense.
1/11/2011 1:26 PM
MikeT23
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Hell, I'm beginning to wonder two things:
1.  Why in the hell am I still reading this thread?
2.  Do I know the meaning of bizarre?

I can't answer the first.  It's like looking at a trainwreck.  You're not going to like what you see but you look anyway.
As for the 2nd, I'm pretty sure it means "out of the ordinary or odd".   Which, quite frankly, seems to fit for both of you. 

Something that happens time and time again is no longer "out of the ordinary" but that doesn't mean it isn't still "odd".    So, if my definition is correct, will both of you STFU?
1/11/2011 1:32 PM
tecwrg
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No.  I still want to hear jvford explain some more how the current process "makes sense" just because it's very vaguely defined in a FAQ.
1/11/2011 1:42 PM
jvford
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If you don't understand at this point, I'm not sure how I can explain it to you.

1/11/2011 2:17 PM
MikeT23
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So I don't know the meaning of "bizarre"?
1/11/2011 3:39 PM
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