New Worlds Topic

mhulshult
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Posted by deathinahole on 6/14/2011 1:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by mhulshult on 6/14/2011 1:00:00 PM (view original):
As far as new worlds go, a lot of people like clean slates, fresh beginnings.  Even if it's only the fact that they're user id says they've been in since the beginning and their team history shows them as the only owner.  Right, wrong, or indifferent, many people feel this way.

I think as a long term solution, one possibility is to develop an engine that allows teams to be run by the sim.  I know many have said they're against it, but if it could be developed well enough to satisfy most, I think it's worth looking into.  Although it's a different dynamic than HD, I think it could work.

I started a new world a season ago because I wanted to try a world that prohibited trading.  I thought about the rules for about a year, contacted admin, recruited folks, and got it up and running.  I know it doesn't appeal to everyone, and I was ready for the fact that some would try it and not enjoy it.  But we've just begun regular season games in season 2, and it's going well so far.

But, you're right, an ever-increasing supply of teams and a seemingly limited amount of demand from owners becomes a problem.  Perhaps WifS is marketing it hard enough that they anticipate many more users coming to HBD.  
Absolutely, positively, would reject the product if there were sim run teams.
What if it ran the team better than you?  Or is that what you're afraid of?  :)
6/14/2011 2:43 PM
MikeT23
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I wouldn't play in a world with SIMMY teams.   We already ***** and moan when they send the runner from third(or don't send the runner from third).

However, I think championship chasers would LOVE SIMMY worlds.  
6/14/2011 2:46 PM
AlCheez
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I'm not going to completely dismiss the possibility that WIS could develop a Sim AI to actually fully run teams that wouldn't be an unmitigated disaster - though I'd really, really like to.  However, even allowing that it could be done, I'm fairly certain putting a similar level of effort into improving other areas of the game and actually marketing the game would be a much better solution to any problems filling worlds.
6/14/2011 2:47 PM
deathinahole
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Posted by mhulshult on 6/14/2011 2:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by deathinahole on 6/14/2011 1:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by mhulshult on 6/14/2011 1:00:00 PM (view original):
As far as new worlds go, a lot of people like clean slates, fresh beginnings.  Even if it's only the fact that they're user id says they've been in since the beginning and their team history shows them as the only owner.  Right, wrong, or indifferent, many people feel this way.

I think as a long term solution, one possibility is to develop an engine that allows teams to be run by the sim.  I know many have said they're against it, but if it could be developed well enough to satisfy most, I think it's worth looking into.  Although it's a different dynamic than HD, I think it could work.

I started a new world a season ago because I wanted to try a world that prohibited trading.  I thought about the rules for about a year, contacted admin, recruited folks, and got it up and running.  I know it doesn't appeal to everyone, and I was ready for the fact that some would try it and not enjoy it.  But we've just begun regular season games in season 2, and it's going well so far.

But, you're right, an ever-increasing supply of teams and a seemingly limited amount of demand from owners becomes a problem.  Perhaps WifS is marketing it hard enough that they anticipate many more users coming to HBD.  
Absolutely, positively, would reject the product if there were sim run teams.
What if it ran the team better than you?  Or is that what you're afraid of?  :)
Think video games. How often can you play a two player game against AI before you're sick of it? Same here. I didn't drop $25 to trash talk a computer.
6/14/2011 2:50 PM
MikeT23
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Well, we are getting a bit off-topic.   My real "problem" wasn't worlds filling(although that's a by-product).  My problem was owners joining for the "new" feeling and then jumping ship when the feeling wears off. 

IMO, you have to "hook" the owner with the team and the game.   And you have to make it cost-prohibitive enough so that an owner pauses before joining.   For me, you have to see "your" players hit the bigs(4-5 seasons) and $120 is enough that I just wouldn't **** it away to "try something".   I'll buy a round of shots that cost $40 just to see if they're good.   I'm not throwing $120 out there to see if I like something. 
6/14/2011 2:54 PM
taz21
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Posted by MikeT23 on 6/14/2011 1:49:00 PM (view original):
The problem with the new car smell is that it wears off.   Then you have worlds that need 8 owners early in their lives.   I'm part of the problem.  I joined a new world by invitation.   I looked at the owner list, didn't recognize any "undesirables" and joined.  About halfway thru spring training of season 1, I knew it wasn't the world for me.  I fulfilled my three season committment and moved on.   Maybe I should have done more research of the other owners.   Maybe I should have just said "no" since I didn't recognize any of them.  But, nonetheless, I left after three seasons.   5-7 left after S1 and the same amount left after S2.   I haven't checked but I'm guessing, in S4, they have less than half the same owners from S1.   Something went wrong somewhere.

And, as I said, I noticed a S2 world needing 8 owners.   That shouldn't happen.
I think you're right, but a well run and populated world probably isn't going to be a canidate for the "reset" button.  Utimately, IMHO, the likely league for my scenerio is one that is about 8 seasons in, has regularly had to turn "public" to fill up the last 4-5 spots each season and is sitting there 1 week into the offseason with 8+ openings and no new prospects on the horizon looking at going public yet again to get a bunch more 1 and dones and perhaps a 1 or 2 guys that might stick around for 2 or more seasons.

Essentially, the option would kill off an old world that wasn't working for one reason or another, then use the "new car smell" aspect to reform the world and hopefully sell coaches on joining up.  I'd add in your 5 season mandate for any new coaches, which would probably help force coaches to become attached to that world and would allow for the existing coaches/commish to establish guidelines from the ground up that might help them going forward.

Combining the two would in essance allow coaches that wanted in on the ground floor that opportunity, while also blowing up private worlds that weren't working well and hoping that a fresh start as well as a handful of coaches committed for at least 5 seasons would help turn it around and make it attractive going forward.
6/14/2011 2:55 PM
deathinahole
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It is off topic, yet important to squash the "just use AI" suggestion, because that would be implemented in a heartbeat to generate leagues turning over faster thus greater revenue.

Unless, everyone walks. Then no revenue.
6/14/2011 2:56 PM
tecwrg
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How would you make trades with SiMMY teams?
6/14/2011 3:01 PM
travisg
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Posted by tecwrg on 6/14/2011 3:01:00 PM (view original):
How would you make trades with SiMMY teams?
Bingo.
6/14/2011 3:35 PM
tbarket
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Sim teams would likely use a system like the MLB games on consoles, if the overall numbers worked, then look at team needs, its a number crunch for a sim.  Does the trade make sense in a projected 2 year time frame.  Obviously a tough program to write, but you wouldn't see a sim trade a potential 80's shortstop for a current 75 2nd baseman that way. 

The sim could be programmed to compare the various relevent numbers with regards to current players at all levels and decide if it made sense.  Additionally answers to those questions could be formed by a forum wide questionaire with hundreds of answers to senario's like this:  Would you trade prospect A for current major leaguer A and minor leaguer B, and include player cards to help.  See what the players at large would say, and that would help develop a decision tree for a sim.
6/14/2011 3:41 PM
tbarket
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But I agree with mike, although financially I would have been hard pressed to commit 120 to a league at one time, it makes sense.  Also I agree that the team I have is 'my team' as a new owner, mistakes are mine, decent players are mine, and I care about the minors because I selected quite a few of them now that its season 4.  He's dead on, in that respect.
6/14/2011 3:43 PM
mhulshult
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There are 100 questions that would need to be answered regarding simmy-run HBD teams, and maybe WifS has already hashed them out and decided it's not possible.  But I would use HD as a template, and tweak what needs tweaking.  Perhaps you don't trade with simmy teams.  Perhaps the ability to have simmy run teams is much like the decision to be public or private.

But back to the OP...

Some guys can't even come up with $25 before rollover.  Requiring $125 upfront is going to limit quite a few folks from joining.  And what happens when you get 2 seasons in and can't or don't want to play anymore?  Do you stick around as a deadbeat owner, or give up your team and eat the money?  I'm guessing most will just stay on since they already paid.
6/14/2011 3:58 PM
MikeT23
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Why would SIMMY trade?  Seems like that's a trade-off you'd have to live with.
6/14/2011 3:58 PM
mhulshult
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And I agree that the best way to "hook" an owner is for them to stick around 4-5 seasons.  The trick is how to do that.
6/14/2011 4:00 PM
MikeT23
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mhul, that's part of it.   If you can't commit the $120, maybe you don't need to join a new world.   Limiting those who can and will commit to 5 seasons is probably a good thing for a new world.   As far as what happens if you don't want it after S1 or S2, you could try to sell your team.   Otherwise, the standard rules, whatever they may be, apply to your continued participation. 

6/14/2011 4:01 PM
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