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burnsy483
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Posted by MikeT23 on 11/15/2013 12:55:00 PM (view original):
Case in point.   Trout/Cabrera.    Fellow lib says "We've done this already.  Why are you doing it again?"    
DONT PUT LABELS ON ME!
11/15/2013 1:02 PM
MikeT23
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You lean left. 
11/15/2013 1:03 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by stinenavy on 11/15/2013 1:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 11/15/2013 12:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/15/2013 12:43:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 11/15/2013 12:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/15/2013 12:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 11/15/2013 12:23:00 PM (view original):
You seem to believe that the President lying to the American public should be conditional.  OK in some circumstances, not OK in others.

Is that true?
I think A) that's exactly true and it's naive to believe otherwise and B) even if it wasn't OK, these two lies aren't be comparable in terms of the severity of the consequences.
OK.

What justified Obama's lie about "If you like the healthcare you have now, you can keep it"?
I'm not saying it's justified, I'm saying it isn't comparable to the lie that got us into Iraq.

Obama's lie: You can keep your same health care plan. Reality: 5% can't. The consequence: Those people will still have healthcare.

Bush's lie: Iraq has WMDs. Reality: They didn't. The consequence: Thousands of deaths.

 
The world is better off without Saddam Hussein in it.

The United States is not better off with Obamacare as the law of the land.

So there's that to consider also, when debating "whose lie is worse".
Is the world better off with thousands of dead US soldiers, and however many maimed, and/or with PTSD?

Is the US better off with less people dying because they didn't have healthcare.

Do you think soldiers know what they're volunteering for when they sign up?

11/15/2013 1:03 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by stinenavy on 11/15/2013 1:04:00 PM (view original):
So it's okay to send them to die for whatever reason?
Read the thread.   More qualified people than you and I make those decisions.   They volunteered to let those people decide what, where and when.
11/15/2013 1:08 PM
MikeT23
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Sigh.

11/15/2013 1:13 PM
MikeT23
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Just saying I think everyone who joins the military knows how the military works.    If there was a draft-supplied military or mandatory military service, I'd have a different view. 
11/15/2013 1:16 PM
tecwrg
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Well, I certainly don't want to trivialize 5000 lost American lives.

But it seems pretty clear that Obamacare is going to have a very personal and negative impact to the lives of far more people than the 5000 soldiers and their families.  It already has.

I think we've only just seen the tip of the iceberg to date with respect to the clusterfuck that the ACA is going to turn out to be.

11/15/2013 1:24 PM
MikeT23
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Yeah, it's a losing proposition to argue lost lives against pretty much anything.     Obama supporters know this.
11/15/2013 1:32 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 11/15/2013 1:24:00 PM (view original):
Well, I certainly don't want to trivialize 5000 lost American lives.

But it seems pretty clear that Obamacare is going to have a very personal and negative impact to the lives of far more people than the 5000 soldiers and their families.  It already has.

I think we've only just seen the tip of the iceberg to date with respect to the clusterfuck that the ACA is going to turn out to be.

I disagree.

A very small portion population will be negatively affected by the law. And the negative effect is minimal. Some people may pay more for health care. Some people may have to change health plans.

Again, not saying that Obama's lie about everyone getting to keep their exact health care plan was ok, but it doesn't compare to Bush's lie about Iraq

 
11/15/2013 1:57 PM
tecwrg
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5,000,000 people have lost their old insurance.  The one that Obama promised them that they'd be able to keep if they wanted.

What number is greater: 5,000,000 or 5,000?
11/15/2013 2:14 PM
MikeT23
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I lost no one in Iraq.   I lost my health insurance and I'm very ill.  

Which lie was worse to me?
11/15/2013 2:16 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 11/15/2013 2:14:00 PM (view original):
5,000,000 people have lost their old insurance.  The one that Obama promised them that they'd be able to keep if they wanted.

What number is greater: 5,000,000 or 5,000?
5,000,000 people are having to change health care plans.
5,000 people died.

Are you really arguing about which is worse????????????????

 
11/15/2013 2:17 PM
MikeT23
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Yep because you're using a broad brush.

I lost no one in Iraq.   I lost my health insurance and I'm very ill.  

Which lie was worse to me?
11/15/2013 2:24 PM
moy23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 11/15/2013 10:24:00 AM (view original):
A) Remember that the vast majority of American deaths in Iraq took place after Saddam was captured.

B) Just because someone decides that they're going to be a soldier doesn't mean that it's irrelevant where they go and what they do, since they could just die anywhere they go.  I'd rather keep people as safe as possible, including soldiers, then to take out dictators when it's unnecessary and costing lives. 
You should clarify your point as 'when it costs american lives' because you ignore the lives of those the dictator takes. 5000 for 1 is not accurate IMO. Let's not sugarcoat suddam. For 20+ years he'd been toying with the UN while killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

From wiki :
According to The New York Times, "he [Saddam] murdered as many as a million of his people, many with poison gas. He tortured, maimed and imprisoned countless more. His unprovoked invasion of Iran is estimated to have left another million people dead. His seizure of Kuwait threw the Middle East into crisis. More insidious, arguably, was the psychological damage he inflicted on his own land. Hussein created a nation of informants — friends on friends, circles within circles — making an entire population complicit in his rule"
11/15/2013 2:58 PM (edited)
tecwrg
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Posted by MikeT23 on 11/15/2013 2:24:00 PM (view original):
Yep because you're using a broad brush.

I lost no one in Iraq.   I lost my health insurance and I'm very ill.  

Which lie was worse to me?
To expand on Mike's point:

If/when we lose a soldier in combat, I see a blurb on the evening news, I shake my head and think "that sucks".  But the reality is that 10 minutes later, I've moved on and I'm watching "Entertainment Tonight" to see what new shenanigans Miley Cyrus has been up to today.

If I lose my health insurance, I'm now dealing with a personal and immediate problem.  It's probably going to take weeks to resolve, and will most likely be taking money out of my wallet.

That's the reality of the "dead soldier" vs "lost my health insurance" argument for many Americans.  In the big "idealistic" picture, are they equitable?  No.  But in reality, one hits home while the other does not.

11/15/2013 3:17 PM
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