Back to this valuing spending thing.

So this young bank teller making $12/hr that I used to work with... Great person, huge heart, total hippie born in the wrong decade. I see on Facebook she took 3 weeks off to travel west with no itinerary. Her and her boyfriend went from the grand canyon all the way north to Portland before heading to Michigan to inform their family they just eloped in Vegas. Look - awesome kid....low wage earner... But i cant help think the decisions she made here are the common mistakes that SPENDERS make. She didn't NEED a vacation out west, definitely not 3 weeks worth, and then to elope in haste with a guy that was also OK making this trip and spending what little money they have... For all i know paid for on credit cards at 19% interest rates. I'm sure they rationalized that they needed the vacation and that it was so romantic to elope in Vegas yada yada yada but if you don't have the money then don't do it. Decisions like these keep a person poor.

Bottom line... This is common. As Suzie Orman puts it - you need to be honest with yourself about your financial situation. If you don't have the money then say NO. "No I'm still your friend but I can't go on your bachelor party in punta cana." "No I can't go to the bar with you because I'm broke."

Low earners CAN save but not by valuing spending more than saving.

Posted by mchalesarmy on 6/10/2014 1:40:00 PM (view original):
The fair tax as it has been proposed would do exactly that greeny.

Everyone making below a certain threshold would get "prebates" as they are called.

Yep

Anyone who cannot admit that most poor people are in bad shape because of poor choices and poor spending habits, is lying to themselves and just doesn't want to see it.

I know there are exceptions but the vast majority fall into the type of examples listed by tec and moy. 

The fair tax doesn't work.

politifact


Bruce Bartlett, a former Treasury Department official, says the prebate does little to change the regressive nature of the tax, because people will spend their prebate and it will be taxed at the same 23 percent rate.

"Even with the rebate counted the way the Fair Tax supporters want it calculated — as a reduction in tax liability rather than an increase in income — there would be an enormous shift in the tax burden from the wealthy to those with lower middle incomes," Bartlett wrote in a story for the magazine Tax Notes.

To paraphrase: "giving people free money is bad, because they'll just go and spend it".

LOL

The bottom line is that the tax system, as it is, is "fair".

Everyone is taxed at the same rate on the same $ earned, it's only when they start earning MORE than the next guy that their tax rate goes up.

Again we thrived for 40+ years when the top tax rate was 63-75%. No one could possibly point to those times and say we were worse off and that the wealthy  weren't doing just fine.

We just don't have many people around anymore who can point back to times before the 70s and remember that times were better. Most on this board can only point to the 70's and see that what Reagan did worked and therefore draw a wrong conclusion that somehow the tax rates should NEVER return to the pre-Reagan days.

I think the problem tec and I have(I know it's the problem I have) is that we're not fans of "They have more so they'll miss it less."   I'm not comfortable spending other people's money or deciding how much they'll miss it if I take it. 

As I said to burnsy, the guy making less than you assumes you'll miss it less also.   I drive the same roads, am protected by the same military, governed by the same clowns, etc, etc, as Bill Gates.  Why should I expect him to pay a higher percentage than me?

Because it worked for a very long time and there wasn't the feeling of "it's not fair" back then.

We just have a 30+ year history of thinking that way as opposed to the 40+ years prior when it worked fine.

Time's change.   I don't think very many liberals want to turn back the clock.     Except for this. 

I'm very far from a liberal. I just think most modern day conservatives forget or just don't realize how successful that system was.

I was just pointing out that very many people want to go back to the 70s way of doing things. 

Any system can be successful if implemented properly.   All we're really talking about is getting enough money from the people to run the government.

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/10/2014 2:13:00 PM (view original):
I think the problem tec and I have(I know it's the problem I have) is that we're not fans of "They have more so they'll miss it less."   I'm not comfortable spending other people's money or deciding how much they'll miss it if I take it. 

As I said to burnsy, the guy making less than you assumes you'll miss it less also.   I drive the same roads, am protected by the same military, governed by the same clowns, etc, etc, as Bill Gates.  Why should I expect him to pay a higher percentage than me?

Because IMO, more people with more money in their pockets is a good thing.  Which is probably why I find the "fair tax" intriguing.  It's more money in our pockets.  

I get the argument that people with more money shouldn't be forced to pay the govt more money, just because they have it and can afford to.  But it makes for a better society in a whole, in my opinion.

And yea, by the way, the guy who makes $30,000 would be correct.  I'll miss my 25% less than he would if he were forced to pay it.  And he pays 15%.

As I mentioned in the long winded post, if people making less than 75K got to keep more of their money they would spend more on the goods and services which would stimulate the economy and would actually increase the earnings of the wealthy business owners.

It really isn't a bad thing at all.

Why don't we just have anyone making more than 400k write checks to people who don't make 400k?

I'll email Mark Cuban my home address now.  I'm sure he'll be good with that.

Let's just put this in a real situation.

You and a childhood friend go out for drinks.   You're making 30k selling hammers.   He invented Facebook.   Do you EXPECT him to pick up the tab?