Minimum Wage Topic

bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 6/10/2014 10:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/10/2014 6:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/10/2014 6:38:00 PM (view original):
Then you haven't been paying attention.    Be brief.   If it takes that many words to get your point across, you likely have no point worth getting across.
I mean, really, if you can't take a position on subjects as simple as taxation, poverty, and the economy as a whole, and boil your entire argument down to the level of a couple lines and a bad analogy that proves nothing, your point is probably worthless.
That's funny, coming from the guy who doesn't know the difference between a flat tax and a progressive tax, and a tax rate and an effective tax rate.,
What do you think of my tax plan? It's a progressive, two bracket system.

The first bracket is for income earned between $1 and $75,000. The rate for this bracket is 0%.

The second bracket is for income earned above $75,000. The rate for this bracket is 60%.

Do you think my system is fair?
6/10/2014 11:44 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 6/10/2014 8:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/10/2014 6:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by greeny9 on 6/10/2014 6:33:00 PM (view original):
yah and obviously unwilling to debate.  I think he did read it, but couldnt come up with a good rebuttal so this is what he says.  Ive seen him do this many times in these here forums.
I'll make it easy.   In that poorly written mess, what NEW point did you make?  Something that hasn't been covered, ad nauseum, already in this thread?   Quote that line.   I can guarantee there is nothing without bothering to read it. 

I guess there was nothing new or interesting.  Otherwise, you'd have pointed it out. 

Thanks for playing.

Damn.  I thought he'd come back and say "What about this?" so I could go back to page 23 and say "Already done."    But, alas, he must be smarter than I thought.

6/11/2014 8:04 AM
tecwrg
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Posted by bad_luck on 6/10/2014 11:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 6/10/2014 10:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/10/2014 6:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/10/2014 6:38:00 PM (view original):
Then you haven't been paying attention.    Be brief.   If it takes that many words to get your point across, you likely have no point worth getting across.
I mean, really, if you can't take a position on subjects as simple as taxation, poverty, and the economy as a whole, and boil your entire argument down to the level of a couple lines and a bad analogy that proves nothing, your point is probably worthless.
That's funny, coming from the guy who doesn't know the difference between a flat tax and a progressive tax, and a tax rate and an effective tax rate.,
What do you think of my tax plan? It's a progressive, two bracket system.

The first bracket is for income earned between $1 and $75,000. The rate for this bracket is 0%.

The second bracket is for income earned above $75,000. The rate for this bracket is 60%.

Do you think my system is fair?
There is no 0% tax rate in my plan.
6/11/2014 8:25 AM
burnsy483
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BL, apparently the fact that you're calling the $75K and under a "tax rate" is what makes it unfair.  Stop calling it a tax rate and it becomes fair.  
6/11/2014 8:50 AM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 6/11/2014 8:25:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/10/2014 11:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 6/10/2014 10:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/10/2014 6:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/10/2014 6:38:00 PM (view original):
Then you haven't been paying attention.    Be brief.   If it takes that many words to get your point across, you likely have no point worth getting across.
I mean, really, if you can't take a position on subjects as simple as taxation, poverty, and the economy as a whole, and boil your entire argument down to the level of a couple lines and a bad analogy that proves nothing, your point is probably worthless.
That's funny, coming from the guy who doesn't know the difference between a flat tax and a progressive tax, and a tax rate and an effective tax rate.,
What do you think of my tax plan? It's a progressive, two bracket system.

The first bracket is for income earned between $1 and $75,000. The rate for this bracket is 0%.

The second bracket is for income earned above $75,000. The rate for this bracket is 60%.

Do you think my system is fair?
There is no 0% tax rate in my plan.
Ok. My plan has a 0% tax rate for income earned under 75k. Is my plan fair?
6/11/2014 8:51 AM
tecwrg
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Your plan wants to add another bracket to the top with an even higher tax rate for those folks.  Because they're rich and won't miss the money, something like that.  I'm pretty sure your proposed new tax rate for that bracket is more than 0%.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

6/11/2014 9:01 AM
bad_luck
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Posted by tecwrg on 6/11/2014 9:01:00 AM (view original):
Your plan want to add another bracket to the top with an even higher tax rate for those folks.  I'm pretty sure it's more than 0%.
Nope. This is my plan. Do you think it's fair, yes or no?
6/11/2014 9:02 AM
moy23
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Posted by bad_luck on 6/11/2014 8:52:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 6/11/2014 8:25:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/10/2014 11:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 6/10/2014 10:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 6/10/2014 6:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 6/10/2014 6:38:00 PM (view original):
Then you haven't been paying attention.    Be brief.   If it takes that many words to get your point across, you likely have no point worth getting across.
I mean, really, if you can't take a position on subjects as simple as taxation, poverty, and the economy as a whole, and boil your entire argument down to the level of a couple lines and a bad analogy that proves nothing, your point is probably worthless.
That's funny, coming from the guy who doesn't know the difference between a flat tax and a progressive tax, and a tax rate and an effective tax rate.,
What do you think of my tax plan? It's a progressive, two bracket system.

The first bracket is for income earned between $1 and $75,000. The rate for this bracket is 0%.

The second bracket is for income earned above $75,000. The rate for this bracket is 60%.

Do you think my system is fair?
There is no 0% tax rate in my plan.
Ok. My plan has a 0% tax rate for income earned under 75k. Is my plan fair?
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer


THIS is 'fair'. Everyone takes home ALL their earned money and they pay taxes only when they CHOOSE to spend that money.

This way the spenders can spend all their money, the savers can save their money, and the gov't isn't forcefully TAKING money from anyone. How much one pays in taxes is now their CHOICE.

In your plan - I would argue that taxing anyone more because they earn more is not fair - its discriminatory by definition.
6/11/2014 9:05 AM
MikeT23
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But you don't understand.  They'll miss it less.  What's unfair about that?
6/11/2014 9:10 AM
MikeT23
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And, yes, I was being sarcastic.   Just in case anyone doesn't know.
6/11/2014 9:14 AM
burnsy483
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OK, question - what's your opinion:  If we institute a "fair tax," or an income tax system where the tax rate is the same for all people, and after it's implemented, there's sufficient, convincing evidence that the economy is worse off because of it, would you be for a progressive tax system at that point, or would you want the fair tax to stay because it's the right and fair way to go about collecting taxes?
6/11/2014 9:34 AM
moy23
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Posted by burnsy483 on 6/11/2014 9:34:00 AM (view original):
OK, question - what's your opinion:  If we institute a "fair tax," or an income tax system where the tax rate is the same for all people, and after it's implemented, there's sufficient, convincing evidence that the economy is worse off because of it, would you be for a progressive tax system at that point, or would you want the fair tax to stay because it's the right and fair way to go about collecting taxes?
There is a difference between 'fair' and 'necessity'.

If a fair system failed then yes out of necessity we would have to employ a more discriminatory system.

I don't think the fair tax system i posted a link to would fail... I actually think it would flourish (more discretionary income, no more tax loopholes, tax lobbying, or irs scandals).

The only way this system fails is if the govt continues to outspend it.... Which I'd argue any system will crumble in this scenario.
6/11/2014 9:46 AM
MikeT23
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I'm never going to be comfortable charging someone more simply because they have more.

It would be better for the economy if the guy making 10m was charged $200 for a steak dinner that I pay $18.99 to eat.    But that's not "fair" in any way, shape or form.
6/11/2014 9:54 AM
MikeT23
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For the record, I get the "principal" behind charging those with more a higher rate.    When I had little money, I was a poor tipper.  Now I have more money and I think I'm rather generous.   I'm not a different person but a few bucks isn't the difference between eating steak or ramen noodles.   But a tip is a choice.   Taxes are not.

6/11/2014 10:15 AM
burnsy483
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I really don't have an answer to "Why is it fair that I pay higher taxes just because I make more money?" I get that it's not really fair.  But I think it's a necessity.  Does taxing everyone who lives here (everyone, finally) through the "fair tax," and getting rid of the tax loopholes make up for adjusting the tax burden % towards the lower and middle class? Maybe?

If your viewpoint is "Even if it's worse for the economy, I want to do what I believe is fair" then it's a fundamental difference we have when it comes to taxation.
6/11/2014 10:54 AM
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