Thanks for the links to other studies.

I still don't see a link to the health pocket study mentioned by the dailycallerand the WT.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/2/2014 10:48:00 AM (view original):
Thanks for the links to other studies.

I still don't see a link to the health pocket study mentioned by the dailycallerand the WT.

http://www.healthpocket.com/healthcare-research/infostat/obamacare-2014-premiums-higher-than-pre-reform-market?_ga_variation=1&utm_expid=60784014-14.Zlx56I0SQAqKSdO9tJpZVg.1&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fm.insurancenewsnet.com%2Foarticle%2F2014%2F10%2F29%2Fstudy-women-men-young-old-average-higher-premiums-with-obamacare-a-570830.html#.VFZdh6nnbqA

Another actual study - most likely the one quoted in the WT and dailycaller... Methodology at the bottom.

Quoted from the study:
"Average premium costs for 23-year-old women and men increased 44.9% and 78.2% respectively after the ACA’s implementation. "

  The missing link.

Posted by moy23 on 11/2/2014 11:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/2/2014 10:48:00 AM (view original):
Thanks for the links to other studies.

I still don't see a link to the health pocket study mentioned by the dailycallerand the WT.

http://www.healthpocket.com/healthcare-research/infostat/obamacare-2014-premiums-higher-than-pre-reform-market?_ga_variation=1&utm_expid=60784014-14.Zlx56I0SQAqKSdO9tJpZVg.1&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fm.insurancenewsnet.com%2Foarticle%2F2014%2F10%2F29%2Fstudy-women-men-young-old-average-higher-premiums-with-obamacare-a-570830.html#.VFZdh6nnbqA

Another actual study - most likely the one quoted in the WT and dailycaller... Methodology at the bottom.

Quoted from the study:
"Average premium costs for 23-year-old women and men increased 44.9% and 78.2% respectively after the ACA’s implementation. "

Finally, the actual study. I can see why the daily caller didn't link it directly.

The conclusion (emphasis added):

"The examination of unsubsidized health insurance premiums is multifaceted and prone to political misuse. The analysis of pre- and post-Obamacare health insurance in the individually purchased health insurance market demonstrates a clear increase of average premiums across age groups and both sexes. While the degree of increase varied by age and sex, the occurrence of an increase did not. However, the degree to which the cost of consumers’ premiums increased is a more complicated matter than suggested by the premium data."

There's so much going on here. It's not 78% across the board. It's 78% for people who purchse health insurance on their own. Which, prior to Obamacare, was a small percentage of the population due to the fact that carrier could underwrite people based on individual health actors and exclude pre-existing conditions.

This also makes sense:

There are several factors that have contributed to higher premium costs in 2014. With the new prohibition on application rejection due to health, insurance plans in the individual market expanded its number of enrollees with expensive medical conditions. Additionally, the average health plan benefit package also expanded. Under the Affordable Care Act, all health plans on the individual market were required to cover ten categories of Essential Health Benefits, including pediatric oral and vision care, as well as maternity and newborn care. In the 2013 pre-reform market, 92% of plans excluded coverage for children’s dental check-ups, 87% excluded children’s eyeglasses, 67% excluded delivery, and 64% excluded prenatal and postnatal care.8 Less than 2% of pre-reform plans provided all of the essential health benefits.9

Posted by bad_luck on 11/3/2014 12:45:00 PM (view original):
This also makes sense:

There are several factors that have contributed to higher premium costs in 2014. With the new prohibition on application rejection due to health, insurance plans in the individual market expanded its number of enrollees with expensive medical conditions. Additionally, the average health plan benefit package also expanded. Under the Affordable Care Act, all health plans on the individual market were required to cover ten categories of Essential Health Benefits, including pediatric oral and vision care, as well as maternity and newborn care. In the 2013 pre-reform market, 92% of plans excluded coverage for children’s dental check-ups, 87% excluded children’s eyeglasses, 67% excluded delivery, and 64% excluded prenatal and postnatal care.8 Less than 2% of pre-reform plans provided all of the essential health benefits.9

Bottom line:

Health insurance costs have increased due to Obamacare.

Thanks for detailing the reasons.

Posted by tecwrg on 11/3/2014 12:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/3/2014 12:45:00 PM (view original):
This also makes sense:

There are several factors that have contributed to higher premium costs in 2014. With the new prohibition on application rejection due to health, insurance plans in the individual market expanded its number of enrollees with expensive medical conditions. Additionally, the average health plan benefit package also expanded. Under the Affordable Care Act, all health plans on the individual market were required to cover ten categories of Essential Health Benefits, including pediatric oral and vision care, as well as maternity and newborn care. In the 2013 pre-reform market, 92% of plans excluded coverage for children’s dental check-ups, 87% excluded children’s eyeglasses, 67% excluded delivery, and 64% excluded prenatal and postnatal care.8 Less than 2% of pre-reform plans provided all of the essential health benefits.9

Bottom line:

Health insurance costs have increased due to Obamacare.

Thanks for detailing the reasons.

For people that purchase individual policies, sure. Mostly because 1 in 5 weren't able to purchase coverage before.

So people who are seeing costs increasing in their individual policies, it's because of Obamacare.

For the majority of people who are seeing costs increasing in their group policies, it's not because of Obamacare, but it's because the insurance companies are greedy money-grubbing vultures.

Got it.

Thanks for clarifying.

Posted by tecwrg on 11/3/2014 2:10:00 PM (view original):
So people who are seeing costs increasing in their individual policies, it's because of Obamacare.

For the majority of people who are seeing costs increasing in their group policies, it's not because of Obamacare, but it's because the insurance companies are greedy money-grubbing vultures.

Got it.

Thanks for clarifying.

Did I say that?

I hope that you're intelligent enough to understand that a whole lot goes into rate setting and that premiums tended to increased long before Obamacare.

  A whole lot goes into health care.  Let people like me do it.  You just sit at home and watch reruns of me.  Because people like me.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/3/2014 3:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 11/3/2014 2:10:00 PM (view original):
So people who are seeing costs increasing in their individual policies, it's because of Obamacare.

For the majority of people who are seeing costs increasing in their group policies, it's not because of Obamacare, but it's because the insurance companies are greedy money-grubbing vultures.

Got it.

Thanks for clarifying.

Did I say that?

I hope that you're intelligent enough to understand that a whole lot goes into rate setting and that premiums tended to increased long before Obamacare.

Yeah, you've said that in the past.  Not those exact words, but you've said that insurance companies are misleadingly blaming Obamacare for raising rates.

Does it matter why insurance rates are going up?

Obamacare is in place, insurance rates go up.    There has to be some correlation. 

Posted by bad_luck on 11/3/2014 12:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/2/2014 11:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/2/2014 10:48:00 AM (view original):
Thanks for the links to other studies.

I still don't see a link to the health pocket study mentioned by the dailycallerand the WT.

http://www.healthpocket.com/healthcare-research/infostat/obamacare-2014-premiums-higher-than-pre-reform-market?_ga_variation=1&utm_expid=60784014-14.Zlx56I0SQAqKSdO9tJpZVg.1&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fm.insurancenewsnet.com%2Foarticle%2F2014%2F10%2F29%2Fstudy-women-men-young-old-average-higher-premiums-with-obamacare-a-570830.html#.VFZdh6nnbqA

Another actual study - most likely the one quoted in the WT and dailycaller... Methodology at the bottom.

Quoted from the study:
"Average premium costs for 23-year-old women and men increased 44.9% and 78.2% respectively after the ACA’s implementation. "

Finally, the actual study. I can see why the daily caller didn't link it directly.

The conclusion (emphasis added):

"The examination of unsubsidized health insurance premiums is multifaceted and prone to political misuse. The analysis of pre- and post-Obamacare health insurance in the individually purchased health insurance market demonstrates a clear increase of average premiums across age groups and both sexes. While the degree of increase varied by age and sex, the occurrence of an increase did not. However, the degree to which the cost of consumers’ premiums increased is a more complicated matter than suggested by the premium data."

There's so much going on here. It's not 78% across the board. It's 78% for people who purchse health insurance on their own. Which, prior to Obamacare, was a small percentage of the population due to the fact that carrier could underwrite people based on individual health actors and exclude pre-existing conditions.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the whole point of the obama exchange to be the place to get individually purchased health insurance plans? Can a business buy group insurance plans on the exchange?


Actually the first study I posted was well done and quite comprehensive. I noticed you glossed over it.

Posted by moy23 on 11/3/2014 3:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/3/2014 12:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/2/2014 11:41:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/2/2014 10:48:00 AM (view original):
Thanks for the links to other studies.

I still don't see a link to the health pocket study mentioned by the dailycallerand the WT.

http://www.healthpocket.com/healthcare-research/infostat/obamacare-2014-premiums-higher-than-pre-reform-market?_ga_variation=1&utm_expid=60784014-14.Zlx56I0SQAqKSdO9tJpZVg.1&utm_referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fm.insurancenewsnet.com%2Foarticle%2F2014%2F10%2F29%2Fstudy-women-men-young-old-average-higher-premiums-with-obamacare-a-570830.html#.VFZdh6nnbqA

Another actual study - most likely the one quoted in the WT and dailycaller... Methodology at the bottom.

Quoted from the study:
"Average premium costs for 23-year-old women and men increased 44.9% and 78.2% respectively after the ACA’s implementation. "

Finally, the actual study. I can see why the daily caller didn't link it directly.

The conclusion (emphasis added):

"The examination of unsubsidized health insurance premiums is multifaceted and prone to political misuse. The analysis of pre- and post-Obamacare health insurance in the individually purchased health insurance market demonstrates a clear increase of average premiums across age groups and both sexes. While the degree of increase varied by age and sex, the occurrence of an increase did not. However, the degree to which the cost of consumers’ premiums increased is a more complicated matter than suggested by the premium data."

There's so much going on here. It's not 78% across the board. It's 78% for people who purchse health insurance on their own. Which, prior to Obamacare, was a small percentage of the population due to the fact that carrier could underwrite people based on individual health actors and exclude pre-existing conditions.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the whole point of the obama exchange to be the place to get individually purchased health insurance plans? Can a business buy group insurance plans on the exchange?


Actually the first study I posted was well done and quite comprehensive. I noticed you glossed over it.

A) Yes, the exchange is where you buy individual policies, not group plans.

B) WTF are you talking about? I quote directly from your link http://www.healthpocket.com/healthcare-research/infostat/obamacare-2014-premiums...

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/3/2014 3:36:00 PM (view original):
Does it matter why insurance rates are going up?

Obamacare is in place, insurance rates go up.    There has to be some correlation. 

I think it matters why rates go up. Especially if you're looking to blame someone.

I used to drive a white SUV. Then I bought a black truck. Health insurance rates went up, there has to be some correlation.