Obama: Worst President Ever? Topic

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MikeT23
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Sure but that's just playin' politics.

border security:   I'm not sure where the libs fall on this one but I know it's popular with cons
Tax reform:  Meh.   If it's "tax the rich less", it's not popular with the libs at all
job creation:  Sure.  Everyone wants more, higher paying jobs.  It's just not that easy.

If the bills that are passed are just "popular" with their voting base, the Repubs don't really gain anything.   They just make their voting base dislike Obama.  Pretty sure that's in place already.
11/6/2014 3:03 PM
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MikeT23
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I'll sound like a tree-hugging hippie but the pipeline isn't that simple.     There are legit enviromental issues.  I know we don't give a **** about that sort of thing if it makes our lives easier/more profitable but we can't keep killing the earth in the name of progress.  

As for tax reform, everyone wants it, no one can agree on what it is.   I think it's mostly "This would be better for me.  Let's do it!!!"    OK.

Border security comes with a cost.   One unspoken cost would be the illegals doing jobs for nothing that no one else would do.   When your apple goes from $1 to $2.50, you'll know what I mean.
11/6/2014 3:29 PM
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MikeT23
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I don't think anything is as simple as "Secure the borders and build that damn pipeline!!!"

IMO, the most pressing matter for most Americans is the economy.   To simplify it, putting people to work so they don't require the govt to assist them.   I don't have the answer on how to solve that problem but 40k jobs and thousands of miles of pipeline destroying the enviroment can't be the only answer.    The secondary issue, and once it's in a better position I think the primary issue will improve in the future, is education.   There has to be a way to emphasize education so teenagers don't see selling dime bags on the street corner as a career opportunity. 
11/6/2014 3:58 PM
MikeT23
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I'll add, even though this sounds as if I'm a panty-wearing liberal, that I believe people are happier and more productive if they feel they have a purpose.  That they're important.    If you hand a go a mop, say "Clean this place" and give him the impression that anyone could handle that mop, you've got a guy who's ****** that he has no value.   His motivation to do better is gone.   We have to figure out a way to remove the feeling of hopelessness that non-skilled workers have.   It's one thing to be 19, flipping burgers and making minimum wage.   It's an entirely different matter to be 48, mopping floors and making a quarter more than minimum wage.   And I'm certainly not suggesting that older janitors need to make 50k a year.   I'm just saying that there has to be a way to help people not get to that point. 
11/6/2014 4:04 PM
MikeT23
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And, FWIW, I know it's too late for Joe Lunchbox or Carl the Janitor.   They made decisions 20 years ago that have put them in a position to be who they are for the rest of his life(even if you believe "hard work" will allow them to improve their lot in life).   We just need to stop their children from heading down the same path. 

11/6/2014 4:15 PM
MikeT23
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Lastly, then I'll STFU for a minute, it's just fine if people want to build houses or provide janitorial service as a career.  I just think our leaders should attempt to figure out a way to allow them to choose that path rather than be sent down it due to circumstances. 

Truth is, I'm probably suggesting mandatory military service.   That's really the only way I can think of to "force" those who don't want to do anything with their life to learn a trade or get an education.    And, no, I never served. 
11/6/2014 4:35 PM
bad_luck
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I agree with Mike's general premise here. Structural changes are needed if we really want to do anything other than throw a band-aid on the problem.

The problem with structural change is that the people in power are perfectly happy with how things are structured. Good luck getting Chevron or Goldman Sachs to contribute to your super PAC when your campaign message is, "**** is ****** and we need to completely change how money and power are concentrated in the hands of a select few."
11/6/2014 5:00 PM
bad_luck
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Anyone who isn't a complete partisan hack knows that Obama's "Hope and Change" slogan really meant, "more of the same **** piled under slightly left of center rhetoric."

And now the GOP lead Senate will respond to the election mandate by proposing legislation that counter's Obama's slightly left of center positions with slightly right of center positions (to the eternal frustration of far-right, tea party types).
11/6/2014 5:05 PM
raucous
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Posted by bad_luck on 11/6/2014 10:59:00 AM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 11/6/2014 10:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by raucous on 11/6/2014 9:54:00 AM (view original):
Now Obama doesn't have Harry Reid to do his dirty work anymore.  I think we need to allocate $100 for extra veto stamps.

Obama has never worked with the Republicans on anything.  The only time stuff got done was when Boner capitulated on everything and gave in.
I'm excited about this. The republicans can really stick it to Obama by passing popular opinion bills like border security, Tax reform, job creation. These are all good for America.
Unless the dems use the filibuster like the GOP did.
They can't.  They voted the filibuster away when they were in charge. Why would the Repugs put it back? 
11/6/2014 5:12 PM
bad_luck
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Posted by raucous on 11/6/2014 5:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/6/2014 10:59:00 AM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 11/6/2014 10:41:00 AM (view original):
Posted by raucous on 11/6/2014 9:54:00 AM (view original):
Now Obama doesn't have Harry Reid to do his dirty work anymore.  I think we need to allocate $100 for extra veto stamps.

Obama has never worked with the Republicans on anything.  The only time stuff got done was when Boner capitulated on everything and gave in.
I'm excited about this. The republicans can really stick it to Obama by passing popular opinion bills like border security, Tax reform, job creation. These are all good for America.
Unless the dems use the filibuster like the GOP did.
They can't.  They voted the filibuster away when they were in charge. Why would the Repugs put it back? 
That was only for judicial nominees, not normal legislation.
11/6/2014 5:23 PM
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The Taint
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Don't mind Raucous. Just another low information voter.
11/6/2014 7:25 PM
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