Posted by moy23 on 11/9/2014 9:57:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/9/2014 7:54:00 AM (view original):

BL, and his ilk, provide excuses for people to remain in poverty.   And, in my experience, if you give people an excuse, they will use it.

That said, the success stories aren't "normal".   The vast majority of 20 y/o aren't planning for retirement.  They're planning for the weekend.   And, quite frankly, I have no problem with that.  You're only 20 once.   But, with mandatory military service, you'd be more mature and more educated about the responsibilities of an adult.   IMO, that's what we need.   The "knowledge" to decide if you want to worry about your 60s or party it up on Saturday. 

Agree with your first sentence.

Also agree its not normal for a 16 y/o to 'on his own' decide he is going to start from $0 and by age 27 have $500,000 in liquid assets and $1.1 million in real estate. The key here is that he has a chance... Everyone has a chance... But it takes a lot of planning and sacrifice. Most 20 year olds, myself included (at the time) would rather get hammered, hook up, and own fancy things. That's a choice though that anyone can make... And there are consequences for choices that people have to own. In this case its a late start to accumulating wealth.

I do agree .... Knowledge is the missing piece. No one ever explicitly said to me at a young age "if you want to be wealthy, this specifically is what needs to be done" and then stuck with the message until it was drilled in my head like Math, English, History, etc was.

Speaking of choices this just comes to mind.... Its sad to see people deciding if its more advantageous to work PT (or not work) because they lose their subsidies if they make too much money. I see so many peolpe saying 'if I work full time I won't make anymore than I do now because I lose my subsidy so I might as well carry on as is". The problem with that choice is these people will not have upward mobility in the workplace and they are destined to carry on status quo. Then again... Its their choice. I just despise our govt puts them in this situation.

I'm not disagreeing.     I'm just saying the conservative attitude seems to be "WORK HARDER!!!"   The big money, with hard work, isn't everyone's goal.

My point actually agrees with your point.   If the govt will subsidize the lifestyle you're comfortable with, why do more?

Posted by bheid408 on 11/8/2014 12:00:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/8/2014 10:40:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bheid408 on 11/8/2014 8:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/7/2014 11:07:00 PM (view original):
back on topic for the thread - I thought Obama was going to get us out of Iraq... 6 years later and he's sending another 1500 troops and requesting another $5 Billion to fund it? Thats not Bush's fault - Thats all on Obama and his 'exit' strategy

More on Obama....

How come when the Democrats had control of the Senate there was little to NO effort by Obama to compromise?

Now not even 1 week after the elections and the Repubs will take control he calls a meeting to try to get everyone to start working together.
Yet he has the audacity to say if they don't he'll just continue to use his executive orders to do what he wants, especially on immigration.
If he had any common sense he'd know that he'd better NOT use any more Executive Orders or 2016 elections will be even worse for the Democrats.

No doubt, when it comes to working across party lines and compromising, he is the worst President EVER.

The more power a party has, the less need to comprise. Now that the Dems don't have the senate, the only way to do anything is compromise.

Gridlock = Obama with Democrat Senate control (his own party).

Compromise = Obama with Republican Senate control or his version of Dictatorship using Executive Orders..

I rest my case.

Posted by moy23 on 11/8/2014 12:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/8/2014 10:50:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/8/2014 9:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bheid408 on 11/8/2014 8:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/7/2014 11:07:00 PM (view original):
back on topic for the thread - I thought Obama was going to get us out of Iraq... 6 years later and he's sending another 1500 troops and requesting another $5 Billion to fund it? Thats not Bush's fault - Thats all on Obama and his 'exit' strategy

More on Obama....

How come when the Democrats had control of the Senate there was little to NO effort by Obama to compromise?

Now not even 1 week after the elections and the Repubs will take control he calls a meeting to try to get everyone to start working together.
Yet he has the audacity to say if they don't he'll just continue to use his executive orders to do what he wants, especially on immigration.
If he had any common sense he'd know that he'd better NOT use any more Executive Orders or 2016 elections will be even worse for the Democrats.

No doubt, when it comes to working across party lines and compromising, he is the worst President EVER.

Obama's Bills with zero republican votes:

Immigration
Pay Equity
Obamacare
Stimulus

Bush's bills with bipartisan support:

Patriot Act
No Child Left Behind
Bailout Bill


The bumbling, blundering Bush can get things done with both parties approval but the great orater, the great uniter can't? Go figure.

Three GOP senators voted in favor of the stimulus. Equal pay and immigration didn't pass.

Lol... So 3 republican votes out of more than 200 republicans casting votes. Is that your standard for reaching across the aisle?

Equal Pay and Immigration didn't pass because they did not get a single republican vote.

Posted by moy23 on 11/8/2014 8:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/8/2014 4:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/8/2014 4:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/8/2014 3:23:00 PM (view original):
To be fair, I doubt BL claimed that no one has ever gone from minimum wage to millionaire.   If you're not born into money, there's the real possibility that you worked a minimum wage job at some point.  So it stands to reason that most millionaires made minimum wage. 

The lesson to be learned is not that he worked a minimum wage job - that's just the cherry on top.... Its HOW he got to where he is now. His attitude, his plan, his sacrifice, his hard work. Its that he educated himself along the way. Read his quotes. That's exactly what it takes to become wealthy.

A) I'm pretty sure that million includes the market value of real estate the he has mortgages on. He doesn't actually have a million bucks.
B) the guy is now making $100,000 a year. That makes saving and budgeting much, much easier.
C) he was able to save 100% of his minimum wage salary. Most people don't have that option.
D) in later jobs he was able to save 40-50k a year. A lot of people would be happy just grossing that.

Look, my point is not that it's impossible to succeed or go from lower class to upper. My point is that we're stacking the deck, making it harder and harder for people to move up.

It's a fact that not everyone can be rich. But people should have the chance to make enough that they aren't in poverty.

A-D just tells me you have learned nothing from reading that article. You should read this kids quotes... He obviously 'gets it' and its paying off. Not only read his quotes but pick up think and grow rich. Read a book like rich dad poor dad. Pick up a suze orman book. They don't cost much meaning anyone can afford them.

I would challenge your premise here - Is the deck being stacked against people or are people getting lazier? There are plenty of immigrants flooding the USA because they know this is a country where EVERYONE has a chance to succeed - and they do succeed in many cases. I think many people forget that, you included.

Posted by moy23 on 11/10/2014 1:37:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/10/2014 12:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/8/2014 8:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/8/2014 4:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/8/2014 4:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/8/2014 3:23:00 PM (view original):
To be fair, I doubt BL claimed that no one has ever gone from minimum wage to millionaire.   If you're not born into money, there's the real possibility that you worked a minimum wage job at some point.  So it stands to reason that most millionaires made minimum wage. 

The lesson to be learned is not that he worked a minimum wage job - that's just the cherry on top.... Its HOW he got to where he is now. His attitude, his plan, his sacrifice, his hard work. Its that he educated himself along the way. Read his quotes. That's exactly what it takes to become wealthy.

A) I'm pretty sure that million includes the market value of real estate the he has mortgages on. He doesn't actually have a million bucks.
B) the guy is now making $100,000 a year. That makes saving and budgeting much, much easier.
C) he was able to save 100% of his minimum wage salary. Most people don't have that option.
D) in later jobs he was able to save 40-50k a year. A lot of people would be happy just grossing that.

Look, my point is not that it's impossible to succeed or go from lower class to upper. My point is that we're stacking the deck, making it harder and harder for people to move up.

It's a fact that not everyone can be rich. But people should have the chance to make enough that they aren't in poverty.

A-D just tells me you have learned nothing from reading that article. You should read this kids quotes... He obviously 'gets it' and its paying off. Not only read his quotes but pick up think and grow rich. Read a book like rich dad poor dad. Pick up a suze orman book. They don't cost much meaning anyone can afford them.

I would challenge your premise here - Is the deck being stacked against people or are people getting lazier? There are plenty of immigrants flooding the USA because they know this is a country where EVERYONE has a chance to succeed - and they do succeed in many cases. I think many people forget that, you included.

You're still not getting my point.

Yes, this guy did great. As do many people. And financial literacy is important and valuable and can benefit everyone.

But even this guy, who is essentially self made, had a ton of help and needed some pretty big advantages to do what he did. Most people making minimum wage, even young people, aren't in the position to save 100% of it. Most people aren't able to put away 40-50K a year when they make less than six figures (as this guy was able to do while he was in the military).

To point to him and say, "see, with a little know how and discipline, anyone can be a millionaire," is either disingenuous or naive.

He is one of tens of millions of examples of people starting at minimum wage job and becoming successful (which as Mike explained is not always being a millionaire). You're missing the point if you are still only looking at this kid's scenario. The advice this kid gives is the same for ANYBODY that wants to become wealthy. The advice (have a plan, read finance books, put money away, think expenses through, etc) doesn't change no matter what - 'how' you get rich does (start a company, savvy investor, win the lottery, etc).

My wife works with a foundation for sick children where the pro athlete who founded it is fond of saying we give a hand up, not a hand out.

Education is a hand up (the old teach a person to fish) and welfare is a hand out (fish for them). Just giving money to people DOES NOT HELP them in the long run... Getting them to free places like the United Way which can train them on resume building, career management, financial education, applying for aide, etc does. EVERYONE has a chance in this country to become wealthy... Not everyone chooses to do something about it.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/10/2014 2:00:00 PM (view original):
Well, they did make it pretty clear that they would not work with him.   Of course, as POTUS, it's kind of your job to get past that.   He really made no conciliatory efforts.   And that's on him.