We elected him.  We got what we deserved.

I'll give us a pass for the first time.   No excuse the 2nd time around. 

Posted by moy23 on 11/10/2014 1:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/10/2014 12:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/8/2014 12:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/8/2014 10:50:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/8/2014 9:34:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bheid408 on 11/8/2014 8:38:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/7/2014 11:07:00 PM (view original):
back on topic for the thread - I thought Obama was going to get us out of Iraq... 6 years later and he's sending another 1500 troops and requesting another $5 Billion to fund it? Thats not Bush's fault - Thats all on Obama and his 'exit' strategy

More on Obama....

How come when the Democrats had control of the Senate there was little to NO effort by Obama to compromise?

Now not even 1 week after the elections and the Repubs will take control he calls a meeting to try to get everyone to start working together.
Yet he has the audacity to say if they don't he'll just continue to use his executive orders to do what he wants, especially on immigration.
If he had any common sense he'd know that he'd better NOT use any more Executive Orders or 2016 elections will be even worse for the Democrats.

No doubt, when it comes to working across party lines and compromising, he is the worst President EVER.

Obama's Bills with zero republican votes:

Immigration
Pay Equity
Obamacare
Stimulus

Bush's bills with bipartisan support:

Patriot Act
No Child Left Behind
Bailout Bill


The bumbling, blundering Bush can get things done with both parties approval but the great orater, the great uniter can't? Go figure.

Three GOP senators voted in favor of the stimulus. Equal pay and immigration didn't pass.

Lol... So 3 republican votes out of more than 200 republicans casting votes. Is that your standard for reaching across the aisle?

Equal Pay and Immigration didn't pass because they did not get a single republican vote.

Pretty sure that the publicly stated goal of the GOP from day one of Obama's presidency was to not work with him.

Oh poor Obama. Cry me a river. More excuses. There's been 40+ presidents before him that have all been in the same situation.

Sure, and they all have had, to one degree or another, contentious relationships with the opposition party.

What they haven't dealt with, at least not that I can remember, is the the hard turn of the opposition party. Guys like Obama and Boehner are relatively close to the center on the political spectrum. Obama falls just to the left of center (not as liberal as Clinton or Carter) and Boehner scored similar to Ford or Nixon on the political spectrum prior to 2010.

While Obama and the Democrats are still the same old Democrats we've always had (good or bad), the GOP has a group that live on a much more extreme part of the political spectrum. Being in the minority has forced GOP leadership to cater to this group, leaving the rest of us with a ******, do-nothing government.

In one way, the less the government does, the better.  They're not in it to solve problems.  They're in it for the problems to continue to provide them power.  That's it.

For a guy who has publicly proclaimed that he wants to redistribute wealth, advocated single-payer healthcare, and is the most abortion-friendly politician (see his stance on the child born alive act), he is plenty enough left of center to be member of the far left; I don't care what any study says.  And I certainly don't care where the spineless Boehner stands in this study.

Have Obama deal with a real conservative who knows how to articulate his positions without fear, then he'll have had to deal challenges.

I'd like to know what issues Obama is "close to the 'center'" on.

Posted by silentpadna on 11/10/2014 3:29:00 PM (view original):
I'd like to know what issues Obama is "close to the 'center'" on.

Well, the ACA was basically written by the GOP in the 90s. The 2009 stimulus was a continuation of Bush's policies. He extended the Bush tax cuts. He supported a cap and trade plan similar to one McCain once proposed. I could go on and on. The idea that Obama is some crazy, left wing socialist is a myth. Nothing more than a right wing negotiating tactic.

Posted by silentpadna on 11/10/2014 3:29:00 PM (view original):
I'd like to know what issues Obama is "close to the 'center'" on.

It's hard to be "close to center" on most issues.

Abortion and gay marriage are cut and dry issues.   You can't lean a "little" left or right. 
"Re-distribution of wealth" sounds like it comes right out of the socialism handbook.    Can't be slightly left of center and use phrases like that. 
If Obama leaned right on a few things, and nothing comes to mind, you could balance some things out.  I just can't think of any right leanings. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/10/2014 4:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by silentpadna on 11/10/2014 3:29:00 PM (view original):
I'd like to know what issues Obama is "close to the 'center'" on.

It's hard to be "close to center" on most issues.

Abortion and gay marriage are cut and dry issues.   You can't lean a "little" left or right. 
"Re-distribution of wealth" sounds like it comes right out of the socialism handbook.    Can't be slightly left of center and use phrases like that. 
If Obama leaned right on a few things, and nothing comes to mind, you could balance some things out.  I just can't think of any right leanings. 

All income taxes are redistribution of wealth. Any politician not in favor of abolishing the income tax would be a socialist under your definition.

Posted by moy23 on 11/10/2014 4:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/10/2014 3:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by silentpadna on 11/10/2014 3:29:00 PM (view original):
I'd like to know what issues Obama is "close to the 'center'" on.

Well, the ACA was basically written by the GOP in the 90s. The 2009 stimulus was a continuation of Bush's policies. He extended the Bush tax cuts. He supported a cap and trade plan similar to one McCain once proposed. I could go on and on. The idea that Obama is some crazy, left wing socialist is a myth. Nothing more than a right wing negotiating tactic.

Lol... And JFK was once a pro-military, catholic democrat that once said "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".... Things obviously change over time.

The ACA is about as left of an issue there is in today's world. The majority of citizens from BOTH parties largely despised the bush bailout bill.... And that Obama doubled up on that doesn't make him centrist - only a bigger spender. Cap & Trade had the support of a whopping 8 Republicans out of the 176 who voted... Man, get that shovel back out cause you will need to dig deeper.

JFK was only president for two years, how much could his positions have changed?

"The ACA is about as left of an issue there is in today's world"

The ACA has deep roots in the 1990s GOP.

"The majority of citizens from BOTH parties largely despised the bush bailout bill"

Exactly. It was a compromise.

"Cap & Trade had the support of a whopping 8 Republicans out of the 176 who voted"

Think about it. How often does an Obama bill get ANY Republican support, let alone votes from eight Republicans? Also, the fact that Republicans don't vote for his legislation doesn't prove that he's an extreme liberal. It just proves that he isn't a Republican.

Posted by moy23 on 11/10/2014 6:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/10/2014 6:10:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 11/10/2014 4:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/10/2014 3:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by silentpadna on 11/10/2014 3:29:00 PM (view original):
I'd like to know what issues Obama is "close to the 'center'" on.

Well, the ACA was basically written by the GOP in the 90s. The 2009 stimulus was a continuation of Bush's policies. He extended the Bush tax cuts. He supported a cap and trade plan similar to one McCain once proposed. I could go on and on. The idea that Obama is some crazy, left wing socialist is a myth. Nothing more than a right wing negotiating tactic.

Lol... And JFK was once a pro-military, catholic democrat that once said "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country".... Things obviously change over time.

The ACA is about as left of an issue there is in today's world. The majority of citizens from BOTH parties largely despised the bush bailout bill.... And that Obama doubled up on that doesn't make him centrist - only a bigger spender. Cap & Trade had the support of a whopping 8 Republicans out of the 176 who voted... Man, get that shovel back out cause you will need to dig deeper.

JFK was only president for two years, how much could his positions have changed?

"The ACA is about as left of an issue there is in today's world"

The ACA has deep roots in the 1990s GOP.

"The majority of citizens from BOTH parties largely despised the bush bailout bill"

Exactly. It was a compromise.

"Cap & Trade had the support of a whopping 8 Republicans out of the 176 who voted"

Think about it. How often does an Obama bill get ANY Republican support, let alone votes from eight Republicans? Also, the fact that Republicans don't vote for his legislation doesn't prove that he's an extreme liberal. It just proves that he isn't a Republican.

Dude the point is that JFK was a different type of democrat than today's breed... Things change over time.... Since the 90s the republican party has changed thus TODAY the ACA is as far left as you can get considering not a single republican vote went its way. Doesn't matter what Abe Lincoln, Dick Nixon, or 1990s John McCain thought.

Also if he was closer to republican policy he'd have more than 8 republican votes on cap and trade. He's so far left on the issue that he can't get republican support.

Obama is not a moderate democrat... Far from it.

You can keep denying it all you want. Obama really isn't all that liberal and I don't say that as some sort of compliment or positive for Obama. I wish he was more liberal.

From DW-Nominate:

We find that President Obama is the most ideologically moderate Democratic president in the post-war period, with a first dimension DW-NOMINATE Common Space score of -0.329. President Lyndon Johnson, the second-most moderate Democratic president in this period, has a score of -0.345. President Obama’s ideological position is estimated from his “votes” (statements of support or opposition) on 282 congressional roll call votes. This amount is somewhat low; for example, President George W. Bush “voted” 453 times during his last term in office. However, it is adequate to recover his latent ideological score.

Posted by bad_luck on 11/10/2014 4:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/10/2014 4:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by silentpadna on 11/10/2014 3:29:00 PM (view original):
I'd like to know what issues Obama is "close to the 'center'" on.

It's hard to be "close to center" on most issues.

Abortion and gay marriage are cut and dry issues.   You can't lean a "little" left or right. 
"Re-distribution of wealth" sounds like it comes right out of the socialism handbook.    Can't be slightly left of center and use phrases like that. 
If Obama leaned right on a few things, and nothing comes to mind, you could balance some things out.  I just can't think of any right leanings. 

All income taxes are redistribution of wealth. Any politician not in favor of abolishing the income tax would be a socialist under your definition.

All income taxes are redistribution of wealth. REALLY??

I don't consider income taxes that I pay that go to the Military to protect me and my country a "redistribution of wealth". I consider it my cost to keep me safe. Or how about income taxes that go to Medical research to help find the cure for diseases? Or income taxes that go to upgrade the infrastructure of our roads and bridges? There are a lot of income taxes that get used to help ME. I don't consider paying my fair share a "Redistribution".

Posted by bheid408 on 11/10/2014 7:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 11/10/2014 4:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/10/2014 4:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by silentpadna on 11/10/2014 3:29:00 PM (view original):
I'd like to know what issues Obama is "close to the 'center'" on.

It's hard to be "close to center" on most issues.

Abortion and gay marriage are cut and dry issues.   You can't lean a "little" left or right. 
"Re-distribution of wealth" sounds like it comes right out of the socialism handbook.    Can't be slightly left of center and use phrases like that. 
If Obama leaned right on a few things, and nothing comes to mind, you could balance some things out.  I just can't think of any right leanings. 

All income taxes are redistribution of wealth. Any politician not in favor of abolishing the income tax would be a socialist under your definition.

All income taxes are redistribution of wealth. REALLY??

I don't consider income taxes that I pay that go to the Military to protect me and my country a "redistribution of wealth". I consider it my cost to keep me safe. Or how about income taxes that go to Medical research to help find the cure for diseases? Or income taxes that go to upgrade the infrastructure of our roads and bridges? There are a lot of income taxes that get used to help ME. I don't consider paying my fair share a "Redistribution".

Guy A pays $40,000 a year in Federal Income Taxes.
Guy B, because of the EIC, get's $2,000 back, even after paying nothing in taxes.

Does guy A get better military protection? Does he get to drive on special, tax-payer-only roads and bridges?

I'll answer. No, he does not.

His "fair share" is significantly more than guy B despite getting no additional benefit. Guy A's income is taken and redistributed for the good of all, whether that be in the form of military protection, infrastructure, or welfare.