Posted by bad_luck on 6/24/2015 2:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/24/2015 11:28:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 6/24/2015 10:50:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/24/2015 10:39:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 6/24/2015 10:17:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/24/2015 9:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 6/24/2015 6:06:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/23/2015 11:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 6/23/2015 11:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 6/23/2015 10:47:00 PM (view original):
The separate country that was formed to protect slavery.

Dude, take my advice. Grab some winks. Come back tomorrow and try again.

You have trouble grasping complex concepts, don't you? And by "complex", I mean anything that goes beyond "duh".

We aren't even arguing at this point, you're just being funny.

You already said that the South seceded to protect slavery. What more is there to talk about?

Nothing, apparently.  Your stubbornness and refusal to admit that you're wrong makes any further discussion pointless.

I do not need to stick my head in the sand. Here is your "argument:"

"The Civil War wasn't caused by slavery. It was caused by secession."

Um ok. And the South seceded because of slavery. Which was my original point. They were trying to protect slavery.

Since you made that "argument," you haven't changed it. You've just pretended that it somehow refutes my point.

Did Lincoln push a war with the Confederacy because he wanted to abolish slavery, or did he push a war with the Confederacy because he wanted to keep the country intact?

It's well known that you are excessively stubborn.  It's also well known that you're excessively stupid.  Which of those is the primary reason why you're continuing to make this argument of yours?

Pretty sure my argument wasn't, "Lincoln wanted war to abolish slavery."

The South seceded/went to war to protect slavery. We're dealing with the motivation of the South, not the North. Please tell me you understand that. It goes back to our discussion of the Confederate flag and why it stands for white supremacy.

The South seceded because they wanted to protect slavery.  Sure.  That's pretty clear.  Nobody is disputing that.

Lincoln could have said "OK Confederacy, good luck, you're on your own now."  The Civil War would have been avoided had he felt that way.

But he didn't.  Why not?  Why did he go to war with the Confederacy?

So, no, you don't understand that we are dealing with the motivation of the South, not the North. For the purposes of our discussion, why the North went to war does not matter. 

Remember, we're talking about this because of the Confederate flag and what it stands for.

I said:

The state is essentially sponsoring racism by flying the flag. It's tough to make any sort of social progress when the Capitol building still says, "we pine for the days when we legally owned black people. Never forget."

You said:

the flag honors the heritage of the Confederacy...The flag has also been hijacked by the white supremacists around the country as a misguided symbol of their bigotry and hatred 

I said:

It hasn't been hijacked. The Civil War was fought to keep slavery legal. The confederate flag is the symbol of the fight to preserve black people as property of whites. That's white supremacy in its most undiluted form.

States honoring that "heritage" is racism.

Then you said:

 The Civil War wasn't about slavery.

Now, if you want to argue that I wasn't clear that I was talking about the South when I said, "the Civil War was fought to keep slavery legal," fine. My bad. I thought it was clear from the context that I was talking about the motivation of the South.

But why the North went through with it doesn't matter to this discussion. The South seceded to protect slavery, that caused war, and now we have Confederate flags hanging out over Capitol buildings to honor the heritage of that war fought, from the South's point of view, to protect their ability to continue owning black people.

Yep. Here it is.

Posted by moy23 on 6/24/2015 4:01:00 PM (view original):
"The sole object of this war is to restore the Union. Should I be convinced it has any other object, or that the government designs using its soldiers to execute the wishes of the abolitionists, I pledge to you my honor as a man and a soldier I would resign my commission and carry my sword to the other side" - Ulysses Grant in a letter to the Chicago Tribune, 1862.


"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it… what I do about slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union." - Abraham Lincoln, August 1952


"I will say, then, that I am not, nor have I ever been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races." - Abraham Lincoln, September 1958


"I am honest in my belief that it is not fair to my men to count negros as equals. Let us capture negros, of course, and use them to the best advantage." - Union General William T. Sherman, 1864








If we are really being honest with ourselves ... Maybe we should ban the American Flag too while we're at it.

This flag should definitely be banned.





The country that flew this flag protected slavery just like the country that wanted to protect slavery flew the Confederate flag.