Posted by sjpoker on 8/5/2016 3:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 8/5/2016 9:42:00 AM (view original):
It's a complex answer I don't have time for right now.... But in short form it can only be accomplished if the black community, it's leaders, it's teachers, it's parents put as much energy as they do protesting police into fixing the schools, getting dealers locked up, and creating a culture of 'moving forward' towards success regardless of obstacles in the way.

But that's hard work.... It's easier to deflect and blame the police who happen to be the ONLY people in these communities trying to protect the honest to god good people that are too poor to get out.

AMEN MOY.

Not a really shock you agree with him.

Not a shock at all that you're still a freakin' moron.
If Black Lives Matter so damn much, why do 100s of blacks kill other blacks every single day? Do whites or Hispanics or Indians or Asians make them kill?
All Lives Matter - equally, regardless of race or anything else, but when any race shows such a blatant disregard for the lives of their own, doesn't that make it infinitely more difficult for others to feel there's a larger problem between that race and others?

yeah, because white people never kill other white people.

Posted by wylie715 on 8/5/2016 6:50:00 PM (view original):
yeah, because white people never kill other white people.

So you're saying WHITE LIVES MATTER?

I'm saying all lives matter. No more or less than any other lives.

AMEN!

Posted by sjpoker on 8/5/2016 4:45:00 PM (view original):
Lets look at moy's statement in more detail. His message seems to be:

"Blacks should handle their own issues." Well they are addressing what they think is an issue when they march in protest against police shootings right? I'm not seeing riots out there.

But, ignoring reality here, moy's statement leads to...

"Blacks don't even know what their own issues are." Because the real issues are 'locking up drug dealers" "Fixing schools" "Creating a forward culture". Moy and most whites know this because they have spent time in these neighborhoods and have done a lot of thinking about the problems in these areas.

which leads to...

"Whites need to tell blacks, or even GUIDE them to what the issues are." Because if they can't figure it out, and whites so magically understand the problems, then they must be either dumb or ignoring the real issues.

But, Moy said he didn't really want to deal with it right? So it comes down to "If Blacks can't figure it out, they need whites to show them the way, yet whites aren't dealing with it."

But you aren't going down that road are you Mike? You understand that this a complex issue in which either you OR ME could possibly understand because we are light years away from that world. Right?

I DO help black kids by donating my time and money via many different outlets... NFP Boards, Fundraisers, Volunteering, Teaching - I guarantee its way more than most liberals who only talk about it but never act on it. What I've learned is any kid, including black kids, have to WANT it if they want to make a change.... And wanting it is not enough, then they have to WORK HARD for it. If success was easy, everyone would be successful. It's not. In fact, Napoleon Hill would suggest that poverty is the default for doing nothing. Success requires hard work and persistence.

Reread my post from earlier.... I didn't say no one would help.... I said its not going to happen without the black community putting in the effort to make real cultural change.

Has Trump started on Hillary yet?

Posted by bad_luck on 8/5/2016 8:36:00 PM (view original):
Has Trump started on Hillary yet?

YES

C-SPAN right now 8:44

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/5/2016 5:44:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 8/5/2016 4:45:00 PM (view original):
Lets look at moy's statement in more detail. His message seems to be:

"Blacks should handle their own issues." Well they are addressing what they think is an issue when they march in protest against police shootings right? I'm not seeing riots out there.

But, ignoring reality here, moy's statement leads to...

"Blacks don't even know what their own issues are." Because the real issues are 'locking up drug dealers" "Fixing schools" "Creating a forward culture". Moy and most whites know this because they have spent time in these neighborhoods and have done a lot of thinking about the problems in these areas.

which leads to...

"Whites need to tell blacks, or even GUIDE them to what the issues are." Because if they can't figure it out, and whites so magically understand the problems, then they must be either dumb or ignoring the real issues.

But, Moy said he didn't really want to deal with it right? So it comes down to "If Blacks can't figure it out, they need whites to show them the way, yet whites aren't dealing with it."

But you aren't going down that road are you Mike? You understand that this a complex issue in which either you OR ME could possibly understand because we are light years away from that world. Right?

Well, you didn't answer the question. The answer is "I fix my roof the best I can because help may never come."

I won't address it as a black/white issue. I'll address it as a poor issue. And I'll address it as someone who slept in their car for three days because they had nowhere to live and as someone who was glad they had a car.

I had nowhere to live. I had no money. I said "**** it. I created this. I'll fix it." I took my next paycheck, part-time, found a ****** trailer I could afford and moved into the shittiest neighborhood in the state. I cut back my college classes(I know, privileged white boy) so I could go to work full-time. I solved my problem without help. I could have moved back home, I could have asked my parents for help. But I took it upon myself to undo the shitstorm I created. Because it was MY situation.

Then I ****** up again 3 years later. I quit taking college courses because I was already working full-time. I took two ****** part-time jobs. A janitor. Which meant I cleaned ****** toilets. A midnight convenience store clerk in that ****** neighborhood that I once lived in when I ****** up before but had worked my way out of. I did this so I could pay the bills I created. Easy way was to default. I took the other way. Slept 3 hours a night 5 days a week then all day Sat/Sun until my midnight shift came up. No life. But I fixed the problem, quit the extra jobs after 7 months and started taking college classes again. Got my degree at 32.

Guess what I did? ****** up again. Fortunately, I was making good money but my numerous credit cards were blistering hot. I didn't do **** for a year other than play ball. Paid my credit cards off during that year.

Now I could have griped about how the system had ****** poor ol' 19 y/o MikeT23. Or 22 y/o MikeT23. Or 33 y/o MikeT23. I didn't. I just focused on fixing MY problems because they were MY problems.

I won't pretend to understand the plight of those living in poor, black neighborhoods. But I know there is a lot of complaining about how it's impossible to get out of them. How the system keeps them in their place. Yet, every now and then, someone gets out. How? Do you think it's due to complaining about the system ******* them over? Or could they possibly have focused their energy on improving their situation? I fully understand that some people just don't have the "tools" to move up. Hard work is all they can do and they'll still be in poverty. So, in your opinion, why are most people stuck in poverty? Keep in mind, if you say "They just don't have the intelligence to get out", you're more racist than you claim moy is. If you say "They just can't get jobs", I'll tell you that every business on earth wants hard workers.

Interesting, you and I have lived almost the same exact life, graduated the same time, was homeless, and worked a ton of part time jobs.

That said, I don't think that the black low income urban community has the ability to get out alone because they work within a system that doesn't allow them to on their own. In many cases no matter how hard they work, they can't dig themselves out.

You - and I - had the ability to do so on our own. We did.

Posted by all3 on 8/5/2016 6:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 8/5/2016 3:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 8/5/2016 9:42:00 AM (view original):
It's a complex answer I don't have time for right now.... But in short form it can only be accomplished if the black community, it's leaders, it's teachers, it's parents put as much energy as they do protesting police into fixing the schools, getting dealers locked up, and creating a culture of 'moving forward' towards success regardless of obstacles in the way.

But that's hard work.... It's easier to deflect and blame the police who happen to be the ONLY people in these communities trying to protect the honest to god good people that are too poor to get out.

AMEN MOY.

Not a really shock you agree with him.

Not a shock at all that you're still a freakin' moron.
If Black Lives Matter so damn much, why do 100s of blacks kill other blacks every single day? Do whites or Hispanics or Indians or Asians make them kill?
All Lives Matter - equally, regardless of race or anything else, but when any race shows such a blatant disregard for the lives of their own, doesn't that make it infinitely more difficult for others to feel there's a larger problem between that race and others?

So tell me all3, why DO blacks kill other blacks? You have an answer? Put your PhD in cultural anthropology to good use and explain ot to all of us. I'm curious to hear.

Posted by moy23 on 8/5/2016 7:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sjpoker on 8/5/2016 4:45:00 PM (view original):
Lets look at moy's statement in more detail. His message seems to be:

"Blacks should handle their own issues." Well they are addressing what they think is an issue when they march in protest against police shootings right? I'm not seeing riots out there.

But, ignoring reality here, moy's statement leads to...

"Blacks don't even know what their own issues are." Because the real issues are 'locking up drug dealers" "Fixing schools" "Creating a forward culture". Moy and most whites know this because they have spent time in these neighborhoods and have done a lot of thinking about the problems in these areas.

which leads to...

"Whites need to tell blacks, or even GUIDE them to what the issues are." Because if they can't figure it out, and whites so magically understand the problems, then they must be either dumb or ignoring the real issues.

But, Moy said he didn't really want to deal with it right? So it comes down to "If Blacks can't figure it out, they need whites to show them the way, yet whites aren't dealing with it."

But you aren't going down that road are you Mike? You understand that this a complex issue in which either you OR ME could possibly understand because we are light years away from that world. Right?

I DO help black kids by donating my time and money via many different outlets... NFP Boards, Fundraisers, Volunteering, Teaching - I guarantee its way more than most liberals who only talk about it but never act on it. What I've learned is any kid, including black kids, have to WANT it if they want to make a change.... And wanting it is not enough, then they have to WORK HARD for it. If success was easy, everyone would be successful. It's not. In fact, Napoleon Hill would suggest that poverty is the default for doing nothing. Success requires hard work and persistence.

Reread my post from earlier.... I didn't say no one would help.... I said its not going to happen without the black community putting in the effort to make real cultural change.

Wow, a Napoleon Hill reference. DougOut has a hardcover edition.

Lets look at this slew of comments.

" I DO help black kids by donating my time and money via many different outlets" (Translation: I'm a white guy who knows all about the black struggle. Because I care. That gives me 'standing' to make the following ridiculous comments. )

Which leads to...

" I guarantee its way more than most liberals who only talk about it but never act on it." (Translation: I have better insight than most other people about the urban low-income black community, so when I say they are lazy and stupid, I can do so without any guilt because I "really know" all about the struggle)

Which leads to...

'any kid, including black kids, have to WANT it if they want to make a change" (Translation: Since the Black community in urban, low income areas is struggling its obvious that none of them want to make a change. Cause and effect right?)

Which leads to...

" wanting it is not enough, then they have to WORK HARD for it" (Translation: These same black low income urban youths are lazy and won't do what it takes to improve themselves.)

Which finally leads to...

" its not going to happen without the black community putting in the effort to make real cultural change" (Translation: They aren't putting in the effort to change.Because if they were, there wouldn't be an issue right?"

You might be wearing out your shovel moy. Get another one so you can dig an even deeper ditch. And don' t get your hood dirty.

And there you have it folks!

Some guy who never killed a black person. Doesn't want to. Hopefully doesn't have to. Asked why.

WHY DO BLACKS KILL OTHER BLACKS like he had something to do with it.

Maybe lazy *** should get off his and fill us in, instead of asking endless questions of ***** while never supplying solution.

I'm not going to quote a quote that is about 9 pages already but here:

" Interesting, you and I have lived almost the same exact life, graduated the same time, was homeless, and worked a ton of part time jobs.

That said, I don't think that the black low income urban community has the ability to get out alone because they work within a system that doesn't allow them to on their own. In many cases no matter how hard they work, they can't dig themselves out.

You - and I - had the ability to do so on our own. We did."


What differentiates the fellow from the black, low income urban community from us? Blacks can get janitor and convenience store clerk jobs, right? If they pay for college, colleges will accept them, right? If they can afford a nicer apartment, they can rent one, right? Again, I won't pretend to fully understand the challenges a black man from a **** neighborhood faces but the obstacles I presented are ones they can overcome. I am assuming "average intelligence" because that does matter. So what is the difference?

Posted by MikeT23 on 8/6/2016 7:53:00 AM (view original):
I'm not going to quote a quote that is about 9 pages already but here:

" Interesting, you and I have lived almost the same exact life, graduated the same time, was homeless, and worked a ton of part time jobs.

That said, I don't think that the black low income urban community has the ability to get out alone because they work within a system that doesn't allow them to on their own. In many cases no matter how hard they work, they can't dig themselves out.

You - and I - had the ability to do so on our own. We did."


What differentiates the fellow from the black, low income urban community from us? Blacks can get janitor and convenience store clerk jobs, right? If they pay for college, colleges will accept them, right? If they can afford a nicer apartment, they can rent one, right? Again, I won't pretend to fully understand the challenges a black man from a **** neighborhood faces but the obstacles I presented are ones they can overcome. I am assuming "average intelligence" because that does matter. So what is the difference?

Mindset.