Posted by r0b0t on 10/27/2010 3:05:00 PM (view original):

Seriously?

I guess they're all 20-25 on the 25 man roster, usually. So I'm not particularly thrilled, but I felt like I cleared some cap room and got some space on my roster for one of my ML ready prospects. And down the line I got a decent bat, a back-end innings eating pitcher, and a defensive/pinch-running dynamo.

Yeah, by nice one, I meant I thought you picked up a pair of future major league contributors, without really giving anything of value up.  Clearing cap room is just gravy

Nothing I lost was replaceable, but nothing I gained will do much besides give me some depth down the line.

KC doesn't have much of a bullpen.

but they can definitely hit the ball.

that said - salem led the AL in runs/rbis last season.... which I did not know until now.

Posted by r0b0t on 10/27/2010 2:30:00 PM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 10/27/2010 2:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by r0b0t on 10/27/2010 2:18:00 PM (view original):

This started with a Honolulu discussion, so I guess David Caballero is one of the players in question?

Despite my team's numbers, that is in a pitcher's park that he's putting up an OPS that high.

A couple of things:  First, I would feel uneasy having that guy on my team, despite those numbers.  Not my sort of guy...  although being lefthanded works well with those particular splits.  Also, .829 career OPS is not awesome for a COF.  Probably makes him about average considering the park.  Lastly, high contact/power guys seems to generate a higher OVR than middling contact/power high splits and eye guys...  makes it harder to get them on the cheap in my experiences.  I also sort of the contact is the least important rating in a hitter for me.

I don't think that's the case, because by and large the players with higher splits tend to be higher overall ratings. Looking at internationals, they tend to produce higher contractual demands. They seem to ask me more money in arbitration than contact/power guys. Looking at the draft, guys with high contact/power tend to drop more than guys with high splits. I just seem to notice the opposite trend.

Interesting...  I seem to find the opposite...  although I also key in on so many other subtle things that make guys undervalued it is sort of hard to see things in a vacuum.

Posted by r0b0t on 10/27/2010 2:32:00 PM (view original):
I just use the link from their profile.

Alternate url for WhatIfSports for people that have it blocked at work.

Posted by r0b0t on 10/27/2010 2:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 10/27/2010 2:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by r0b0t on 10/27/2010 2:26:00 PM (view original):

As stated earlier, I generally value players from both backgrounds. I find the players with the higher splits to generally be more consistent with their production. You'll see the marked difference in AVG and OBP.

However,  guys with strong contact and power seem to prevail in SLG by a larger margin than they're losing in OBP, provided they have a good eye. They are largely inconsistent and not dependable, so I really have reservations of that Honolulu team really making a deep playoff run, but when those players produce they can put up some really gawdy numbers for extended stretches.
 

I thought in your original claim, the guys in question had a bad eye.  Didn't you say an 80/80/50/50/50 guy?

Eye is the most important rating to me.

Eye was never brought up with those figures, because it always holds a higher quantifiable value, because you'll see how it directly affects the statistics.

Went back and looked.  This is a correct statement.

Posted by r0b0t on 10/27/2010 2:52:00 PM (view original):
Made another trade.

Schmidt is the only guy I like on either side.

Posted by moy23 on 10/27/2010 3:27:00 PM (view original):
KC doesn't have much of a bullpen.

KC has three legit bullpen guys...

Plus, he has a sustainable product...  so he will continue to have a better collection of players.

Posted by robusk on 10/27/2010 3:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 10/27/2010 3:27:00 PM (view original):
KC doesn't have much of a bullpen.

KC has three legit bullpen guys...

Plus, he has a sustainable product...  so he will continue to have a better collection of players.

KC would be dangerous with a strong closer. 28/45 last season in saves. The good news is only 45 save ops (thats low) ... that means imo he is either flat out losing or just slaughtering the **** out of teams.... the bad news is teams that outlast his 2 starters and their 2 tandem pitchers have little problem getting back into the game. Thats how i eked by KC two seasons ago in 7 games.... outlasting his tandems with my own solid RPs (Carasone, Hawkins, Keller) .... I picked up Elcano in the offseason and it paid off with a WS.

As far as sustainable - that depends on the coach - will he sign these guys long-term or always trade them away for new prospects, potentially sacrificing a shot at it all? My team will be fine (playoff bound) for at least the next 4 seasons. Sure some older players are leaving but the core is still intact, infact, I traded two vets for Robin Leonard last season... so some youth movement is occurring. next season I will be back in the IFA market too.... and I'll have a couple type Bs.

Posted by moy23 on 10/27/2010 3:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by robusk on 10/27/2010 3:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 10/27/2010 3:27:00 PM (view original):
KC doesn't have much of a bullpen.

KC has three legit bullpen guys...

Plus, he has a sustainable product...  so he will continue to have a better collection of players.

KC would be dangerous with a strong closer. 28/45 last season in saves. The good news is only 45 save ops (thats low) ... that means imo he is either flat out losing or just slaughtering the **** out of teams.... the bad news is teams that outlast his 2 starters and their 2 tandem pitchers have little problem getting back into the game. Thats how i eked by KC two seasons ago in 7 games.... outlasting his tandems with my own solid RPs (Carasone, Hawkins, Keller) .... I picked up Elcano in the offseason and it paid off with a WS.

As far as sustainable - that depends on the coach - will he sign these guys long-term or always trade them away for new prospects, potentially sacrificing a shot at it all? My team will be fine (playoff bound) for at least the next 4 seasons. Sure some older players are leaving but the core is still intact, infact, I traded two vets for Robin Leonard last season... so some youth movement is occurring. next season I will be back in the IFA market too.... and I'll have a couple type Bs.

KC doesn't play with a closer, so looking at his save stats is just stupid.  While I agree his bullpen underachieved last year, looking at save/save opportunities is just another example of you looking at the completely wrong stat to make a case that is also stupid.

Hoping you can trade guys that you haven't developed properly and haven't prevented from decline with your crappy budget doesn't seem all that sustainable to me.  Especially when you have to augment the holes created by trades with overpaying vets that won't be worth 1/3 of their contracts at the end of the deal because they have dropped 15 points in OVR.

a save is any pitcher after the 6th inning that blows a 3 run or less lead. you don't need a closer for that. my point is they can't close a game out once you get past the 2 pitcher tandem.

Posted by moy23 on 10/27/2010 4:23:00 PM (view original):
a save is any pitcher after the 6th inning that blows a 3 run or less lead. you don't need a closer for that. my point is they can't close a game out once you get past the 2 pitcher tandem.

My point is that it is a stupid stat, your point is stupid and you are stupid.

Last season at this time, moy was going to be back in the international market this season...