Tea Party 4-18-11 Topic

tpob18
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The ACLU intentionally misinterperets the constitution to fund their extremist point of view of what they think America should be. The difference is these are intelligent people making a conscience decisions. The teabaggers are unfotuneately ignorant average Americans to dumb to know they are making a mistake.
11/5/2010 4:59 PM
creilmann
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It's the courts who interpret or misinterpret the constitution, not the ACLU.  If the precedent hadn't already been set by a history of separation of church and state, then the ACLU would never win and would probably no longer exist.


11/5/2010 5:12 PM
creilmann
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and ignorance does not excuse stupidity.
11/5/2010 5:14 PM
tpob18
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Posted by creilmann on 11/5/2010 4:41:00 PM (view original):
Jefferson, Franklin, Paine....all outspoken deists.  Others, like Washington, were deists as well but chose to keep their beliefs to themselves.  They believed that a God did exist, but they did not believe that the Bible was the word of that God.  I would imagine that they would oppose any government body promoting the ten commandments or the nativity since they believed the Bible was mostly fable and contradiction.  

You can accuse the ACLU of going overboard.  Personally, I think having the cross on the seal of Los Angeles is pretty minor compared to some of the other stuff in this country that the ACLU should be going after.  But they don't misquote the Founders in an attempt to justify their views.
The ten commandments are more than a religious symbol. They are a symbol of our system of justice as an early form of written law. Not much different than the scales of justice.

Is a nativity scene actually promoting religion or a reflection of the values, beliefs and norms of the majority of the people in a community?  It actually is a violation of the first amendment when they force the removal of a nativity scene because they are denying the religious rights of the citizens. If the ACLU truly was defending the intent of the authors of the constitution they would be on the other side on this issue. If you can't have a nativity scen then the very name Virginia, Maryland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, St. louis, St. Paul etc. are illegal and must be changed.



 
11/5/2010 5:19 PM
tpob18
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Posted by creilmann on 11/5/2010 5:14:00 PM (view original):
and ignorance does not excuse stupidity.
Ageed but the knowing sin is worse than the ignorant sin.
11/5/2010 5:21 PM
tpob18
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Posted by creilmann on 11/5/2010 5:12:00 PM (view original):
It's the courts who interpret or misinterpret the constitution, not the ACLU.  If the precedent hadn't already been set by a history of separation of church and state, then the ACLU would never win and would probably no longer exist.


Ultimately it is the court that misinterprets the constitution but the true evil is done by those who are intentionally trying to damage the constitution for the own agenda.



 

11/5/2010 5:33 PM
creilmann
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The scales are a symbol of our justice system, but not the commandments.  I hear so many people say that our laws are based on the ten commandments.  I don't know if this is your belief or not, but if it is, maybe you can take a few moments to explain how so.

You can argue about what values the nativity or the commandments represent, but that misses the point.  Many of the Founders did not believe in either of those so I find it hard to believe that they would support the government promotion of them.


11/5/2010 5:39 PM
creilmann
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it actually is a violation of the first amendment when they force the removal of a nativity scene because they are denying the religious rights of the citizens.

Only if it is removed from private (non-government) property.

11/5/2010 5:43 PM
tpob18
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Posted by creilmann on 11/5/2010 5:39:00 PM (view original):
The scales are a symbol of our justice system, but not the commandments.  I hear so many people say that our laws are based on the ten commandments.  I don't know if this is your belief or not, but if it is, maybe you can take a few moments to explain how so.

You can argue about what values the nativity or the commandments represent, but that misses the point.  Many of the Founders did not believe in either of those so I find it hard to believe that they would support the government promotion of them.


The ten commandments like the code of Hammurabi is one of the first examples of written law. They are as much a symbol of our judeo christian heritage and values as they are a religious symbol. These values focus on the responsibility of the individual to what is just and moral according to the norms of our society.
11/5/2010 6:42 PM
creilmann
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But they've been a strong symbol of Christianity long before our country existed.  Posting the ten commandment outside a county courthouse isn't a nod to ancient law. It's a tribute to Christianity.  
11/5/2010 6:57 PM
tpob18
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But christianity is part of what has made us who we are. It is our heritage and our history. We cannot ignore the role judeo christian values have played in shaping our society. Denying It is in many ways the same thing as teaching biblical creationism as fact.
11/5/2010 7:32 PM
creilmann
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Define Christian values.
11/5/2010 7:46 PM
raucous
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How the f.... did this turn into anything about religion?  There wasn't anything religious about the protests that I went to. 
11/5/2010 10:25 PM
tpob18
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Posted by raucous on 11/5/2010 10:25:00 PM (view original):
How the f.... did this turn into anything about religion?  There wasn't anything religious about the protests that I went to. 
It is not really about religion.
11/5/2010 11:40 PM
tpob18
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Posted by creilmann on 11/5/2010 7:46:00 PM (view original):
Define Christian values.
Judeo Christian values. I'll do my best. I would say judeo christian values emphasize the individual over the group. Not in the selfish sense but in the sense that each individual has a responsiblity to live up to their potential but also has the freedom to choose. Our marriage customs and our family structure come from these customs.  Our societal viewpoint on sex and drugs and music and war and peace etc. all come from these values.  The ten commandments, Jesus, The code of Hammurabi, etc make up who we are. Not all of it is good but it is part of our history and denying the ten commandments or a nativity scene is just plain wrong unless the intent is to force religious veiws on others. We are a western society and a christian society and while all religion is welcome our laws and customs are based on judeo christian beliefs.

11/6/2010 12:01 AM
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