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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/8/2011 5:57:00 PM (view original):
So Texas trains and arms it's citizens better than it does it's police force? That just seems crazy. And a tad unbelieveable.

. Ramiro Martinez, an officer who participated in stopping Whitman's rampage, later stated that the civilian shooters should be credited as they made it difficult for him to take careful aim.

2/8/2011 9:52 PM

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Posted by jiml60 on 2/8/2011 9:43:00 PM (view original):
Welcome to swamphawk's fantasy world, Mike.

And as always my fantasy is reality and your reality is fantasy!

2/8/2011 9:52 PM

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Posted by swamphawk22 on 2/8/2011 9:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 2/8/2011 5:57:00 PM (view original):
So Texas trains and arms it's citizens better than it does it's police force? That just seems crazy. And a tad unbelieveable.
. Ramiro Martinez, an officer who participated in stopping Whitman's rampage, later stated that the civilian shooters should be credited as they made it difficult for him to take careful aim.

Trained police officers couldn't take random shots at him to make it difficult for him to take careful aim?

2/9/2011 8:43 AM

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Austin Police Department (APD) Officers Ramiro Martinez, Houston McCoy and Jerry Day, plus civilian Allen Crum, were the first to reach the tower's observation deck, stepping outside the south door at 1:24 p.m. Martinez, closely followed by McCoy, formed one team and proceeded north on the east deck. Day, followed by Crum, formed a second team and proceeded west on the south deck, with Whitman believed to be between the two teams. Several feet before reaching the southwest corner, Crum accidentally discharged a shot from his borrowed rifle.

Yep, there's that crack armed civilian force in action.

2/9/2011 11:01 AM

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That's AWESOME. I only hope it's true.

2/9/2011 11:13 AM

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Well, it's from the same Wiki page swamp got his reference from, so it's just as reliable.

2/9/2011 11:20 AM

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This thread is eventually going to need cliff notes.

2/9/2011 3:17 PM

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Posted by antonsirius on 2/9/2011 11:01:00 AM (view original):

Austin Police Department (APD) Officers Ramiro Martinez, Houston McCoy and Jerry Day, plus civilian Allen Crum, were the first to reach the tower's observation deck, stepping outside the south door at 1:24 p.m. Martinez, closely followed by McCoy, formed one team and proceeded north on the east deck. Day, followed by Crum, formed a second team and proceeded west on the south deck, with Whitman believed to be between the two teams. Several feet before reaching the southwest corner, Crum accidentally discharged a shot from his borrowed rifle.

Yep, there's that crack armed civilian force in action.

So the fact that civilian snipers saved lives by pinning him down is just no longer part of the equation? That fact is just tossed aside?

That would almost make you a liar!

2/9/2011 5:05 PM

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Now I understand why you deny that you are a chronic liar, swamp. You don't actually know what the word means.

2/9/2011 5:14 PM

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Texans walk the streets carring sniper rifles?

2/9/2011 5:42 PM

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Posted by antonsirius on 2/9/2011 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Now I understand why you deny that you are a chronic liar, swamp. You don't actually know what the word means.

No, actually I understand it very well. You are the one that keeps using it when it doesnt apply.

This was a kind of jab at you, to make you look stupid for calling me a liar when the word could never apply in the situations you use it in.

If anything else I say confuses you dont be afraid to ask me to explain it to you.

2/9/2011 6:54 PM

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Nowhere did I deny that Officer Martinez's statement was true, or just "toss it aside"; in fact, I specifically said that your post referencing it was just as accurate as the post I made about the accidental discharge by the civilian, given that they came from the same source.

So, to look at it from another perspective, the only way my post about Crum could be any kind of lie would be if your post about Martinez was also a lie. Otherwise both are true (or at least as true as Wiki gets) and your post about me being a liar is the dishonest one.

So which post of yours is deceitful, swamp? The quote from Wikipedia, or your "jab"? It's got to be one or the other. QEMFD.

2/9/2011 7:13 PM

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And again I want to stress that neither of us has ever lied in these forums, to the best of my knowledge. We have just disagreed on basic issues. I guess in a strict technical sense your calling me a liar could be a lie, but since it is a specifc act of personal attack against me we will let it slide.

The Police catching him in the end is a happy ending, and I commend the officers for their bravery.

The only relevant issue is that armed civilians helped save the day. If they were unarmed by the kind of laws Obama supported in Illinois and DC more people would have died.

2/10/2011 1:21 AM