Lets talk education... Topic

swamphawk22
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My political leanings are no seceret. I really want people to talk about issues here.

My belief is that the public school system has been going down for about 50 years now. We spend a ton of money and nothing gets better.

I believe that the system is broken.

I find fault with the core of the system, designed mostly by liberals.

I think we need vouchers and more local control. We need to stop the unions from exerting control over the process. We need to get the Feds out for the most part.

Why am I wrong?
4/7/2011 5:45 AM
MikeT23
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You talking education probably won't go well.

Bad teaching and permissive parenting are the problems.   Fix those and the public school systems improve.

Good luck with that.

4/7/2011 7:03 AM
r0b0t
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Next time you talk to jwelsh's wife like that, you'll get worse! She cried for an hour! It's not enough she teaches stupid children to read and write, you had to bawl her out!
4/7/2011 9:47 AM
swamphawk22
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This thread is symbolic of debate in America.

The left does not want to discuss issues. They want to decide what to do between themselves.

They say they want to talk to Republicans, but they dont want to talk to....

Tea Party people
Dittoheads
Anyone who watches Beck
Anyone who reads Coulter
Anyone who listens to Palin
Anyone who likes Reagan

Or Swamphawk....
4/7/2011 4:39 PM (edited)
MikeT23
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They don't want to talk about it because bad teachers are protected by unions.   Unions get people elected.
They don't want to talk about it because they have a "just let kids be kids" attitude.  When there's no parenting, kids don't care about school.
4/7/2011 4:35 PM
greeny9
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Posted by swamphawk22 on 4/7/2011 5:45:00 AM (view original):
My political leanings are no seceret. I really want people to talk about issues here.

My belief is that the public school system has been going down for about 50 years now. We spend a ton of money and nothing gets better.

I believe that the system is broken.

I find fault with the core of the system, designed mostly by liberals.

I think we need vouchers and more local control. We need to stop the unions from exerting control over the process. We need to get the Feds out for the most part.

Why am I wrong?
The public school system is going down at about the same rate that "defense" coughoffensivecough spending is going up.  Coincidense?  Dont think so.

You are right the system is broken.  Badly, which is why Ive been fighting for "proportional representation"  This idea that (up here in Canada) we have 5 major parties but only the top 2 have any chance of forming government and the bottom one (the greens) will never get a seat with the current system is beyond stupid.  And yours well there is so many problems with the American system where do we get started?

And your assertion that the system was designed mostly by the liberals?  How do you figure that?  This is just another of the many many many times Mr Swamp that you sir spread so much disinformation and bull$hit its truly amazing.

Honestly, stop giving your warped view on these things and come up with real honest to good numbers and facts that doesnt come from Faux news.


4/8/2011 2:18 PM
MikeT23
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Perhaps the lamest argument is "We don't spend enough!"
4/8/2011 3:21 PM
swamphawk22
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And we do spend enough. Almost no one spends as much as we do per capita. Can someone tell me how much is enough?

What would more money do that the current money isnt doing?
4/8/2011 3:40 PM
MikeT23
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The liberal solution.   Throw more money at it.
4/8/2011 3:48 PM
antonsirius
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Posted by r0b0t on 4/7/2011 9:47:00 AM (view original):
Next time you talk to jwelsh's wife like that, you'll get worse! She cried for an hour! It's not enough she teaches stupid children to read and write, you had to bawl her out!
Bravo, sir. Well played.
4/8/2011 4:17 PM
swamphawk22
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Posted by antonsirius on 4/8/2011 4:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by r0b0t on 4/7/2011 9:47:00 AM (view original):
Next time you talk to jwelsh's wife like that, you'll get worse! She cried for an hour! It's not enough she teaches stupid children to read and write, you had to bawl her out!
Bravo, sir. Well played.
So when I reference IAWL I am an idiot. When he does it he is a genius?
4/8/2011 4:32 PM
greeny9
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Posted by swamphawk22 on 4/8/2011 3:40:00 PM (view original):
And we do spend enough. Almost no one spends as much as we do per capita. Can someone tell me how much is enough?

What would more money do that the current money isnt doing?
the question you need to be asking is where is all that money going?  Is it going towards huge benefits packages of higher-ups in schools?  Is it going towards paying crazily excalating profits of the suppliers of the education system?...

Or looking at it from a different angle maybe the youth of America have other things on their minds then education.

Maybe its standard testing thats at fault.

The solutions to the education problem are a lot more complicated then simple dollars in and dollars out.
4/8/2011 9:13 PM
peajay
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Is the public school system actually broken?

From Gene Lyons at Salon.com:

Whether it's New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg or Microsoft's Bill Gates, the guy with the thickest wallet is assumed to have all the answers.

Even when that person's badly misinformed. Consider Gates' recent speech to the National Governor's Conference. "Over the past four decades, the per-student cost of running our K-12 schools has more than doubled," the great man claimed, "while our student achievement has remained virtually flat ... To build a dynamic 21st-century economy and offer every American a high-quality education, we need to flip the curve."

Alas, this is well-meaning demagoguery. Sure, costs are up. But so is overall student performance. According to National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) -- the "gold standard" of educational testing -- American kids have actually done better in reading and math since about 1980. Richard Rothstein of the Economic Policy Institute summarizes the data:

"American students have improved substantially, in some cases phenomenally. In general, the improvements have been greatest for African-American students, and among these, for the most disadvantaged. The improvements have been greatest for both black and white 4th and 8th graders in math. Improvements have been less great but still substantial for black 4th and 8th graders in reading and for black 12th graders in both math and reading."

You'd think this would be good news. But like TV evangelists, education reformers peddling miracle cures often exaggerate others' sins.

www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/04/06/michelle_rhee_lyons/index.html

4/8/2011 9:27 PM
antonsirius
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Posted by swamphawk22 on 4/8/2011 4:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by antonsirius on 4/8/2011 4:17:00 PM (view original):
Posted by r0b0t on 4/7/2011 9:47:00 AM (view original):
Next time you talk to jwelsh's wife like that, you'll get worse! She cried for an hour! It's not enough she teaches stupid children to read and write, you had to bawl her out!
Bravo, sir. Well played.
So when I reference IAWL I am an idiot. When he does it he is a genius?
When you reference it incorrectly and in a pathetically ludicrous fashion, yes, you are an idiot. And when someone else then references it to throw your previous idiocy in your face, yes, they are a genius.

I hope this helps you begin to vaguely understand how comedy works.
4/8/2011 11:25 PM
genghisxcon
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Let me tell you something my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane.
4/9/2011 12:14 AM
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