GOP psychos obsessed with Planned Parenthood Topic

I didn't say that. I said that there is nothing wrong with supporting laws  that are in line with Christian beliefs, but it is wrong to expect them to be the basis for our laws.

I also said, "Many of our laws do fall in line with Christian morality, because moral values tend to be similar across different religions and even from believers to non-believers."

So, I'm not sure why you think I was contradicting myself.

4/14/2011 6:26 PM
Jeez.  So if you believe something is wrong, very, very wrong, you shouldn't expect it to be a basis for a law?

What?
4/14/2011 6:29 PM

Try saying this out loud:   "I don't think my beliefs should be the basis for law."  

Did you laugh when you finished?  I did.

4/14/2011 7:05 PM
I didn't say anything of the sort. Go back and re-read. Maybe you'll get it this time.


4/14/2011 7:48 PM
Posted by tedco on 4/14/2011 6:17:00 PM (view original):
There is nothing wrong with supporting or advocating for laws which are in line with your Christian beliefs, but it is wrong to expect them to be the basis for our laws. We are not, and never have been, a Christian nation. Many of our laws do fall in line with Christian morality, because moral values tend to be similar across different religions and even from believers to non-believers. But part of being an American is recognizing that we have a diversity of beliefs and that when it comes to our laws, one does not automatically hold sway over another.

You're funny.

"which are in line with your Christian beliefs, but it is wrong to expect them to be the basis for our laws"
4/14/2011 7:52 PM
How is that in any way what you claim I said?

Just because a law happens to be in line with a Christian belief doesn't mean it was the basis for the law.

That isn't too complicated, is it?

4/14/2011 7:59 PM
OK, padna, I'll try one more time.

Merely having human DNA is simply not enough to qualify in my opinion as an organism that deserves moral consideration for a couple of reasons. Morals are, from one perspective, a transaction between equals (simplified into the Golden Rule). This is what I'm talking about when I talk about 'moral agents'. A fetus, obviously, can't participate in that transaction. They aren't "an end unto themselves", to borrow Kant's phrase - in fact, biologically, a zygote, fetus, etc. actually is a means to an end (a fully formed human being).

Because that end is a human being though, there probably "ought" to be some special case here, just as there are special cases for children or adults with impaired brain functions. But that's where the utilitarian, 'maximal pleasure/minimal pain' argument comes in, and why I think the development of the fetal nervous system is relevant to the discussion. 'Minimal suffering' when aborting a first or early second trimester fetus can only refer to the health, physical or emotional, of the mother (and, if you want to include him in the discussion, the father) - and that's not a call I'd ever be willing to make for her. That necessarily can only be a highly personal decision on her part - and thus, as long as the fetus is not yet developed enough to feel pain from the abortion, I have to be pro-choice.

The other reason I think it's abhorrent to base moral decisions on the possession of human DNA is that you are a priori excluding every other sentient being, or even possibly sentient being, from consideration. Dolphins may very well be moral agents in their own right - they've shown the capacity for using tools and for inter-species empathy, and other behavior that at one time we would've considered exclusively human. 

Your definition of who is "human" is based on the possession of human DNA, which is fine as far as it goes. But we're not talking about biology, we're talking about the morality of a specific action. And I'm just not comfortable basing a decision on who gets to be considered part of the most privileged class - who gets to be considered a "who"  - based on that. It just doesn't seem relevant to me.

This is why a discussion of the building blocks of morality, and (for instance) why murder is wrong, is important. You can talk about it being self-evident and based on natural law all you want, but clearly abortion is not self-evidently right or wrong or the argument wouldn't have raged as long as it has. To me, that's just dodging the real heart of the question.
4/14/2011 10:07 PM
If none of that registers, then try this: I'm not willing to say a fetus is a human being - a being capable of rational thought and a moral agent in their own right - because I can't predict the future. I do not know for a certainty that a fetus will make it to full term, and neither to you.
4/14/2011 10:14 PM
Anton, I don't have much time today to comment on this, maybe a little later, but your posts help me understand better where you are coming from.  As you might have guessed, I have thoughts about several of your points.  I appreciate you taking the time to articulate where you're coming from.  Back a little later.
4/15/2011 7:35 AM
So back to the thread topic.

Is the GOP psychotic for supporting a specific issue in the budget negotiations that many of the supporters believe in?

Of course not.

Is the Democratic Party so fanatical about supporting abortion rights that they are psychotic?

Again of course not.

This is political give and take. As in adult conversation.
4/16/2011 3:36 AM
Holding the budget hostage over a social issue certainly is psychotic.

And supporting the continued funding of PP doesn't have anything to do with abortion, as those funds have zero to do with abortions.


4/16/2011 12:36 PM
Posted by tedco on 4/16/2011 12:36:00 PM (view original):
Holding the budget hostage over a social issue certainly is psychotic.

And supporting the continued funding of PP doesn't have anything to do with abortion, as those funds have zero to do with abortions.


It isnt being held over a social issue. It is being held over funding a priate orginization.

Both sides feel deeply about the issue.

Isnt honest debate over core issues something we want from our politicians? Isnt making back room deals that trade off things something we are trying to get rid of?
4/16/2011 2:04 PM
**** off, liar. Holding your breath until the country turns blue, or your bluff gets called, is not "honest debate".
4/16/2011 2:38 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 4/16/2011 2:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tedco on 4/16/2011 12:36:00 PM (view original):
Holding the budget hostage over a social issue certainly is psychotic.

And supporting the continued funding of PP doesn't have anything to do with abortion, as those funds have zero to do with abortions.


It isnt being held over a social issue. It is being held over funding a priate orginization.

Both sides feel deeply about the issue.

Isnt honest debate over core issues something we want from our politicians? Isnt making back room deals that trade off things something we are trying to get rid of?
A "pirate" organization? WTF is that supposed to mean?

And you know it's a social issue. Or you're deluding yourself.


4/16/2011 3:52 PM
Posted by tedco on 4/16/2011 3:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by swamphawk22 on 4/16/2011 2:04:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tedco on 4/16/2011 12:36:00 PM (view original):
Holding the budget hostage over a social issue certainly is psychotic.

And supporting the continued funding of PP doesn't have anything to do with abortion, as those funds have zero to do with abortions.


It isnt being held over a social issue. It is being held over funding a priate orginization.

Both sides feel deeply about the issue.

Isnt honest debate over core issues something we want from our politicians? Isnt making back room deals that trade off things something we are trying to get rid of?
A "pirate" organization? WTF is that supposed to mean?

And you know it's a social issue. Or you're deluding yourself.


priate was a misspell of private.

And of course abortion is a social issue. We are not deciding the abortion issue. We are not deciding if PP stays open. we are deciding if the US federal Government is going to give it milions of dollars a year!
4/17/2011 6:36 AM
◂ Prev 1...8|9|10|11|12...27 Next ▸
GOP psychos obsessed with Planned Parenthood Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.