Did Mike just argue in favor of sterilizing johns?

Posted by MikeT23 on 6/22/2011 8:23:00 PM (view original):
Why should it be changed?  What do you gain from it?

I have went in depth into my reasons for legalizing prostitution.

You have pretty much rejected it because nothing I say matters to you. It is very to keep saying that my points are wrong.

Lets see if you can explain what benefit you get from laws against prostitution.

You didnt tell me why keeping prostituion illegal was good.

You explained that couples might break up and that working as a prostitute is bad.

Show me a specific good that comes from illegal prostitution. Makes something stick, cause up to now you are very weak.

Legalized prostitution would change the culture.    If you don't think it would, you've never even seen a real, live vagina. 

Now, if you would, tell me what is gained from legalized prostitution.   If you're going to change the culture, even if you're not sure how much or for good or bad, there should be a good reason.

In fact, if you don't think getting laid changes a lot of things, I doubt you ever went thru puberty.

Posted by antonsirius on 6/22/2011 9:19:00 PM (view original):
Did Mike just argue in favor of sterilizing johns?

I'm in favor of sterilizing a lot of people.   Please take your place at the end of the line.  Thank you.

Given how long the line is, I'll have plenty of time to procreate.

Take note, swampy.   That's how you make an argument.    anton is right and I cannot respond.

Since no one else seems capable of answering Mike's question, I might as well.

The benefits of legalizing prostitution would be:

1) Economic. As with all underground forms of commerce, bringing prostitution out of the shadows would increase wages for those employed in the industry, increase tax revenue for the government, and fewer government resources would be channeled into fighting it. Overall legalizing prostitution would be a net positive for the economy as a whole - likely not a huge one, but still a positive.

2) Public safety. As with other, previous forms of prohibitions, making a vice illegal does little to deter people from doing it (e.g alcohol, marijuana, porn), but it does increase the wealth and influence of the criminal syndicates who run it, and puts both those employed in the industry (the prostitutes) and those using their services (the johns) at greater risk of violence. In this particular case, both are also at greater risk of STDs in an illegal and unregulated industry. Legalizing prostitution would hit organized crime in their wallets, reduce violence and reduce the spread of STDs through the population. Both the latter also are positive impacts on the economy as well, given health care costs in this country.

Against those two very real, positive impacts of legalizing prostitution, so far all Mike has offered in rebuttal is a hysterical prediction about the end of marriage as we know it. He might as well throw in a "Won't somebody think about the children!?!" while he's at it.

1.  Economic is a horrible reason to allow human trafficking.   First, I'll refer back to "consenting adults".   It's different throughout the country.   Regardless of what anyone else thinks, I don't really have a problem buying a shirt from a 16 year old at Old Navy but it seems awful sleazy to buy some legal poon from the same girl.  If that's not going to be legal, you'll have to explain why.  Tax revenue would still be generated by this "consenting adult'.    Second, I'm not sure creating tax revenue is a reason to legalize anything.  Maybe we should just tax baby-making.  Tax pet ownership.  Tax parties thrown at your home.  In fact, let's tax everything.  That would create plenty of tax revenue. 

2.  Public safety, as you state it, is also a horrible reason to legalize human trafficking.  Desensitizing us to sex, which is a pitfall of prostitution, will desensitize us to other things.  Like the whore's feelings.  When they don't do what they're told, those prone to violence will simply smack them in the mouth.  After all, they're being paid to do what we want.  With more people getting the sex and caring less about the other person, I somehow doubt violence will be reduced.  The police may as well set up a station in the whore house.  I'm not sure we "waste" less resources at all.   As for STDs, I honestly can't deny that legalizing prostitution should reduce the risk.   I don't really know the gestation period of STD's but I assume the 'hos won't be tested daily.  I'm pretty sure street 'hos use condoms and I'm pretty sure the legal 'hos would be required to do the same but, on the whole, the legal 'hos will be tested more frequently.

While those two very real "impacts" for the legalization of prostitution aren't very real or impactful, they would change the culture   I'm pretty sure you can't deny that.  If you can, please try to explain.

1 Prostitution is not human trafficking. They are two separate things, and in fact legalizing prostitution would reduce human trafficking. And yes, if a 16 year old is a legal adult in a state, she can pay income tax on whatever job she has. If you don't like it, lobby to change the age of majority. After all, in those states there are older people having sex with 16-year-olds right now. Oh wait that's right, you don't believe laws should be changed under any circumstances.

2 We're back to the hysterical "o noes the culture will change!" argument. Nice. Eliminating prohibition on a vice reduces the influence of organized crime and reduces violence. That's historical fact. Your hypothetical, hysterical "we'll be desensitized to sex and women will get hurt" stuff is cute but basically meaningless.

Since you want to talk about culture change though, one of the classic libertarian arguments in favor of legalization of things like prostitution is that it would reduce the scope and reach of government in people's day-to-day lives and start instilling a sense of personal responsibility in citizens again. The decline in 'moral values' in the States, as they usually get defined, parallels the rise of  the "nanny state" pretty well, so reducing the latter should increase the former.

That argument holds just as much weight as your "the culture will change, women will get beat up and marriage will die" argument does.

Great points Anton.

The other thing that sometimes gets missed is that not only does laws against prostitution not work, but they dont do any collateral good.

When there is a major drug bust a lot of drugs are gone for good, many murderers are arrested and guns and cash are seized. Bad people are stopped or slowed down.

Prostitutes are of no threat to society as a whole. When arrested they almost always are not put in jail. No guns or anything illegal is ever seized in any real amounts. Hooker stings have about the same impact on society as arresting panhandlers. All cosmetic.

They are very costly though. In terms of man hours and equipment.

First, I'd like to say that you know I'm right when swampy says "Great points Anton."   If you want to wave the white flag, I'll understand.

1.  If selling your body for the sexual pleasure of others isn't the trafficking of human flesh, I don't know what is.  If you don't agree, I'm not going to be able to convince you so I'll just let that point remain as is.   As for 16 year olds become legal prostitutes, I don't think you've really thought it through.  First, 16 year olds make really stupid, spur of the moment decisions.  Allowing them to sell sex might be the worst idea I've ran across on these boards.  I'll refer back to the mental aspect of being a whore.  I find it hard to believe that some people don't regret that decision.   Second, your point was to increase tax revenue.  Now, not only are we allowing the young to make stupid decisions, we're encouraging it and profiting from it.  As a country.   Somehow that seems wrong.   If you don't agree, I can't help you.   Lastly, I'm not lobbying for change.  If WV thinks 16 is old enough to figure out if they want to **** a 40 y/o, WV can do what they want.   I'm not a moralist pushing my beliefs on everyone.   I'm just going with what's legal now and asking "Why change it?"

2.  No, we're not.  You said "The public would be safer with legalized prostitution."   I don't think so.  Desensitizing us to one "vice" doesn't mean we stop there.  We're paying for a product.  When we don't get what we want, we react.  Someone prone to react violently will react violently because "she's just a whore."

As for a change of culture, it would be.   No way for me to say if it would be for better or worse.  I believe it would be for the worse but I could be wrong.   But I believe how we view women would change.  And I don't think it would be for the better.  

Again, I don't see any benefit to changing the current laws.  And you've certainly not made a convincing argument that it would be a good thing.

So if selling your body is human trafficking what is the NFL Draft?

Why is Sex a special service?

Why is minimum wage flipping burgers and picking up guys on the weekend to have sex with somehow good?