Posted by antonsirius on 9/18/2011 4:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 9/17/2011 10:55:00 PM (view original):
I never claimed to have any empathy for my 'fellow' man... especially when they are mooching off me. I earn my money and I like to horde it. I live by the mantra that one can never save enough (because inevitably something that costs money will come up). Unfortunately Democrats TAKE my money and squander it on poorly run/high fraud welfare, social security, and healthcare programs.

"High fraud"? Bullshit. That's as based in reality as the Nancy Pelosi field mice thing.

You need to stop trusting sources of information that lie to you to your face, moy.

That's your best response. Fraud runs rampant in government programs. Nearly 80% of the construction guys I know collect unemployment over the winter while working unreported 'full time' side jobs. My experience with section 8 housing has shown me that many of these kids have nicer accessories than I do.... I see them with iPhones, ipads, brand new clothes, etc. Just read an article on crackdowns on healthcare fraud where insurance scams were being run by doctors and nurses....

You are an idiot ... a HUGE IDIOT.... if you think fraud doesn't run rampant in government programs. Im not reading papers.... im taking a look around. Aren't you the guy that says under the fair tax businesses will cheat on their taxes given the chance and that blackmarkets will sprout up everywhere? Now all of a sudden fraud is not a huge problem. Wow. Maybe you should travel to the US more instead of reading your trusted sources.

Posted by antonsirius on 9/18/2011 4:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 9/17/2011 11:12:00 PM (view original):
And I know the political difference between giving money to the poor and the 'proposed' job stimulus ..... that doesnt change the fact they are both costly band aids that don't solve a problem. Nothing permanent ..... that's why I said giving $10k to 47,700,000 people would go a lot farther than $477 billion to create 50,000 TEMPORARY jobs.

No, it wouldn't. The goal is not just to provide temporary jobs, it's to get people back into the work force so that they are ready to take permanent jobs once the private sector gets their thumbs out of their ***** and creates them.

The goal is to buy votes from union workers. Don't try and spin that **** with me.

If he was serious about getting more jobs he'd drop the corporate tax base until more foreign investment came overseas to the US as I've discussed before.... but then again.... its politics. Its not about the country.... its about the political party.

Posted by antonsirius on 9/18/2011 4:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 9/17/2011 11:12:00 PM (view original):
And I know the political difference between giving money to the poor and the 'proposed' job stimulus ..... that doesnt change the fact they are both costly band aids that don't solve a problem. Nothing permanent ..... that's why I said giving $10k to 47,700,000 people would go a lot farther than $477 billion to create 50,000 TEMPORARY jobs.

No, it wouldn't. The goal is not just to provide temporary jobs, it's to get people back into the work force so that they are ready to take permanent jobs once the private sector gets their thumbs out of their ***** and creates them.

Why "create" jobs for workers you don't need?

Posted by antonsirius on 9/18/2011 4:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 9/17/2011 11:12:00 PM (view original):
And I know the political difference between giving money to the poor and the 'proposed' job stimulus ..... that doesnt change the fact they are both costly band aids that don't solve a problem. Nothing permanent ..... that's why I said giving $10k to 47,700,000 people would go a lot farther than $477 billion to create 50,000 TEMPORARY jobs.

No, it wouldn't. The goal is not just to provide temporary jobs, it's to get people back into the work force so that they are ready to take permanent jobs once the private sector gets their thumbs out of their ***** and creates them.

This is what is wrong with government programs like this. It takes $477 billion to spend a few billion to put some guys to work.

Posted by moy23 on 9/18/2011 6:38:00 PM (view original):

Posted by antonsirius on 9/18/2011 4:55:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 9/17/2011 11:12:00 PM (view original):
And I know the political difference between giving money to the poor and the 'proposed' job stimulus ..... that doesnt change the fact they are both costly band aids that don't solve a problem. Nothing permanent ..... that's why I said giving $10k to 47,700,000 people would go a lot farther than $477 billion to create 50,000 TEMPORARY jobs.

No, it wouldn't. The goal is not just to provide temporary jobs, it's to get people back into the work force so that they are ready to take permanent jobs once the private sector gets their thumbs out of their ***** and creates them.

The goal is to buy votes from union workers. Don't try and spin that **** with me.

If he was serious about getting more jobs he'd drop the corporate tax base until more foreign investment came overseas to the US as I've discussed before.... but then again.... its politics. Its not about the country.... its about the political party.

 Why would Obama need to buy votes from unions? He's already got those votes in his back pocket. It's a nice conspiracy theory, but it makes no ******* sense.

Posted by antonsirius on 9/19/2011 7:31:00 AM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 9/18/2011 6:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by antonsirius on 9/18/2011 4:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 9/17/2011 10:55:00 PM (view original):
I never claimed to have any empathy for my 'fellow' man... especially when they are mooching off me. I earn my money and I like to horde it. I live by the mantra that one can never save enough (because inevitably something that costs money will come up). Unfortunately Democrats TAKE my money and squander it on poorly run/high fraud welfare, social security, and healthcare programs.

"High fraud"? Bullshit. That's as based in reality as the Nancy Pelosi field mice thing.

You need to stop trusting sources of information that lie to you to your face, moy.

That's your best response. Fraud runs rampant in government programs. Nearly 80% of the construction guys I know collect unemployment over the winter while working unreported 'full time' side jobs. My experience with section 8 housing has shown me that many of these kids have nicer accessories than I do.... I see them with iPhones, ipads, brand new clothes, etc. Just read an article on crackdowns on healthcare fraud where insurance scams were being run by doctors and nurses....

You are an idiot ... a HUGE IDIOT.... if you think fraud doesn't run rampant in government programs. Im not reading papers.... im taking a look around. Aren't you the guy that says under the fair tax businesses will cheat on their taxes given the chance and that blackmarkets will sprout up everywhere? Now all of a sudden fraud is not a huge problem. Wow. Maybe you should travel to the US more instead of reading your trusted sources.

My point with the fair tax was not that black markets would have a massive impact, it's that they would have any impact at all. The proponents of a fair tax being cited pretended they wouldn't exist when they made their calculations on how awesome it would be. Good try though.

80%, hmm? That's what, four of the five guys you know? Well, case ******* closed I guess.

Does fraud exist? Of course. It is a "huge" problem? No one has ever been able to come up with a shred of proof to back up that assertion. And no, moy, your anecdotal "80% of all the construction workers you know are criminals" story isn't proof. Although it does beg the question of why you don't report them. They're stealing money out of your pocket, right?

Anton is a HUGE IDIOT. Case closed.

The US Government is Suing 12 Banks for Mortgage Fraud totaling $200 billion.  How is this not 'proof' and how is this not a 'huge' amount when libs ***** about oil companies making $15 billion or CEOs making $30 million and claiming those are huge amounts of money?

I can find a similar article in ANY news source you'd prefer just so my sources pass your 'good source' standards.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/realestate/foreclosure/chi-report-us-to-sue-12-large-banks-over-mortgage-portfolios-20110901,0,1787675.story?page=1

In 2010 the government 'RECOVERED' $4 Billion in HealthCare Fraud.  And thats only the ones that got caught!!!!!!!!!!!!  Is $4 Billion a huge number cause thats all that closing the proposed loopholes obama is campaigning on will bring in?  Is my source fine... or should I find another one citing the $4 Billion that has been recovered by the USA government as PROOF that fraud runs rampant.   

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2011-08-29/Health-care-fraud-prosecutions-on-pace-to-rise-85/50180282/1


And btw - Healthcare now tops the list of Government Fraud, climbing ahead of Defense:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/12/17/132134328/when-it-comes-to-government-fraud-health-care-now-tops-defense

This is a good one from 2009 - I mean defense spending only grew from $400 to $600 billion during his terms. 

Under Bush Defense Fraud cases fell while Defense Contracts went on the rise.  I suppose so few defense contractors under the Bush Administration wanted to commit fraud so the caseload went down, right?  

 http://www.iwatchnews.org/2009/04/01/2906/fraud-cases-fell-while-pentagon-contracts-surged

And how about Procurement Fraud - issued from a gov't website - if Procurement Fraud wasn't so rampant why the new agency?  Is my source approved by anton?

http://www.justice.gov/oig/special/s0902a/index.htm


FIRST PARAGRAPH ----

The National Procurement Fraud Task Force (NPFTF) was created on October 10, 2006, to promote the prevention, early detection, and prosecution of procurement fraud. The NPFTF recognizes that a large part of government dollars lost to fraud, waste, and abuse includes dollars lost to grant fraud. As a result, the NPFTF includes preventing, detecting and prosecuting grant fraud as part of its focus. The NPFTF includes 58 prosecutorial and investigative agencies, including 35 Offices of Inspectors General (OIG). Chaired by the Department of Justice’s (DOJ) Assistant Attorney General of the Criminal Division, the NPFTF’s goal is to detect, investigate, and prosecute procurement fraud, grant fraud, and associated corruption.

THIS IS A GREAT ARTICLE - sources are at the bottom with links for Anton...  but it shows how ridiculous waste and fraud is in the US gov't.   HIGHLY RECOMMENDED READ!


A Preview:

Health care fraud is estimated to cost taxpayers more than $60 billion annually.[13]


A GAO audit classified nearly half of all purchases on government credit cards as improper, fraudulent, or embezzled. Examples of taxpayer-funded purchases include gambling, mortgage payments, liquor, lingerie, iPods, Xboxes, jewelry, Internet dating services, and Hawaiian vacations. In one extraordinary example, the Postal Service spent $13,500 on one dinner at a Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse, including “over 200 appetizers and over $3,000 of alcohol, including more than 40 bottles of wine costing more than $50 each and brand-name liquor such as Courvoisier, Belvedere and Johnny Walker Gold.” The 81 guests consumed an average of $167 worth of food and drink apiece.[8]


More than $13 billion in Iraq aid has been classified as wasted or stolen. Another $7.8 billion cannot be accounted for.[22]


The Defense Department wasted $100 million on unused flight tickets and never bothered to collect refunds even though the tickets were refundable.[29]




http://hoguenews.com/?p=4834


^^^^ Is it any wonder why I wouldn't want ANYONE to pay more in taxes??????????????????????


Notice I even supported Obama in some of these articles in previous posts or bashed Bush.  That's because both political parties are guilty of knowingly turning a blind eye to these kinds of waste and fraud.  I'm of the opinion that you are just too stupid to see it Anton.  At least that's how you make yourself appear in your posts.

Posted by moy23 on 9/19/2011 11:43:00 AM (view original):
The US Government is Suing 12 Banks for Mortgage Fraud totaling $200 billion.  How is this not 'proof' and how is this not a 'huge' amount when libs ***** about oil companies making $15 billion or CEOs making $30 million and claiming those are huge amounts of money?

I can find a similar article in ANY news source you'd prefer just so my sources pass your 'good source' standards.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/realestate/foreclosure/chi-report-us-to-sue-12-large-banks-over-mortgage-portfolios-20110901,0,1787675.story?page=1

Umm, so all fraud is government fraud now? Interesting.

Posted by moy23 on 9/19/2011 12:26:00 PM (view original):
THIS IS A GREAT ARTICLE - sources are at the bottom with links for Anton...  but it shows how ridiculous waste and fraud is in the US gov't.   HIGHLY RECOMMENDED READ!


A Preview:

Health care fraud is estimated to cost taxpayers more than $60 billion annually.[13]


A GAO audit classified nearly half of all purchases on government credit cards as improper, fraudulent, or embezzled. Examples of taxpayer-funded purchases include gambling, mortgage payments, liquor, lingerie, iPods, Xboxes, jewelry, Internet dating services, and Hawaiian vacations. In one extraordinary example, the Postal Service spent $13,500 on one dinner at a Ruth’s Chris Steakhouse, including “over 200 appetizers and over $3,000 of alcohol, including more than 40 bottles of wine costing more than $50 each and brand-name liquor such as Courvoisier, Belvedere and Johnny Walker Gold.” The 81 guests consumed an average of $167 worth of food and drink apiece.[8]


More than $13 billion in Iraq aid has been classified as wasted or stolen. Another $7.8 billion cannot be accounted for.[22]


The Defense Department wasted $100 million on unused flight tickets and never bothered to collect refunds even though the tickets were refundable.[29]




http://hoguenews.com/?p=4834


^^^^ Is it any wonder why I wouldn't want ANYONE to pay more in taxes??????????????????????


Notice I even supported Obama in some of these articles in previous posts or bashed Bush.  That's because both political parties are guilty of knowingly turning a blind eye to these kinds of waste and fraud.  I'm of the opinion that you are just too stupid to see it Anton.  At least that's how you make yourself appear in your posts.

$60 billion in health care costs out of $2.5 trillion? Thanks for proving my point.