Max Contract- "Increase your offer"??? Topic

mburgy
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I've offered a guy a max contract, and I'm getting the old, "if you want my client to sign with your club,. you're going to have to increase your offer." I've given him max bonus, max salary over the length of the contract, as well as put in a no-trade and a player option for the end of the contract. Is there anything less to entice the guy?

2/25/2014 9:30 AM
jibe
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As I understand it signing a top of the line ML HC/PC can help sway a player. But I think you've lost the guy. It also sounds like you weren't the first guy to offer the max deal, I have heard that being the first guy to offer max carries some weight.

Former franchise can also sometimes have an edge and ballpark can help or hinder a bit.

2/25/2014 9:49 AM
damag
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Yep, someone else has higher priority... whether through coaching, ballpark, or former franchise.

2/25/2014 9:55 AM
fasteddy88
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Or winning team? Does hat make a difference at all?
2/25/2014 10:44 AM
mburgy
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I was the defending regular season AL Champ, lost to the eventual WS champ in the LCS...I don't think it's the winning because none of the other teams that had better records than I did have the cap room.
2/25/2014 11:18 AM
bglick
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What player?
2/25/2014 2:53 PM
barber0306
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It comes down to coaching as the tiebreaker. Just saw it play out in my world.
2/26/2014 9:46 AM
MikeT23
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I'm not sure it's that cut and dry.  I've seen max offer players sign with teams that don't have a coach in place.   Of course, I'm taking other owners' word that they had a max offer for said player but, if they are correct, it's not all coaching.
2/26/2014 10:03 AM
damag
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Last time I saw a max guy come up, a few owners had a shot at him till his former franchise called him back. That seemed to finish it.
2/26/2014 10:57 AM
zbrent716
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2014 10:03:00 AM (view original):
I'm not sure it's that cut and dry.  I've seen max offer players sign with teams that don't have a coach in place.   Of course, I'm taking other owners' word that they had a max offer for said player but, if they are correct, it's not all coaching.
Based on my own experience and higher-level exchanges with CS, it is "all coaching" if there is a difference in coaching. As part of Ticket #113546:

If a player has multiple offers that are the exact same he will never accept an offer with the franchise that has a worse coaching staff. 

Here is an example, maybe that will make this more clear.

Franchise A - PC with IQ of 50, BU with IQ of 20
Franchise B - No relevant coaches
Franchise C - PC with IQ of 90, BU with IQ of 60

All things equal (contract value, no loyalty bonus, etc.) Franchise C will win the rights to the FA.

Another Example:

Franchise A - No relevant coaches
Franchise B - PC with IQ of 1, BU with IQ of 1
Franchise C - No relevant coaches

All things equal (contract value, no loyalty bonus, etc.) Franchise B will win the rights to the FA.

There is absolutely no way we could allow for an FA to wait until all relevant coaches have been hired since the process runs asynchronously.

Hope that makes sense.
2/26/2014 11:29 AM
MikeT23
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I would say "That sounds like bullshit" because a ****** coach is going to be topped by the other teams but I can see how WifS set the program up that way.   1>0, 2>1 and so on.   So no coach = 0.
2/26/2014 11:58 AM
AlCheez
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Yeah, if you're going to allow the player to sign before coaches are hired, I'm not sure how else you can do it.  I guess you could assign a "baseline" value for an empty coaching slot, but that would probably have to be so low as to not be worth bothering with it.
2/26/2014 12:05 PM
zbrent716
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Posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2014 11:58:00 AM (view original):
I would say "That sounds like bullshit" because a ****** coach is going to be topped by the other teams but I can see how WifS set the program up that way.   1>0, 2>1 and so on.   So no coach = 0.
As would I. And I did:

In your second example, the FA will - without question - have ended up with the worst coaches, given that he signed with the *worst* coaches possible.

Franchises A and C will, at some point, have to sign coaches, correct? And they will, at worst, be tied with franchise B; in reality, they'll be better every time. 

Nevertheless, the player will have ended up on the team with the worst coaching staff possible (contrary to the tie-breakers) because those crappy coaches signed earlier.

Basically, you're just saying that an unsigned coach is treated as a 0? 

So a 50 PC pitching coach and a 48 PC bullpen coach would be deemed a better coaching situation than a 97 PC pitching coach and a currently vacant (but one that has to be filled) bullpen spot?



But that is exactly how the program is set up.
2/26/2014 12:07 PM
MikeT23
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To be honest, I hadn't factored in the BU coach when I posted this:

'I'm not sure it's that cut and dry.  I've seen max offer players sign with teams that don't have a coach in place."

Because I think I've seen players pick no PC team over low PC team when both claimed max offer.   But, if no PC had a high level BU, they'd have had the better coaching under the formula you've posted.   
2/26/2014 12:11 PM
Jtpsops
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The only reference point I have is my time in Coop - I made a guy a max offer and got him despite having one of the worst records in the league the year prior, and other teams in on him had more pitcher-friendly ballparks. The only advantage I had over other teams was my top rated PC.
2/28/2014 12:45 PM
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