The value of a Closer vs Setup A Topic

2/26/2014 5:00 PM
Posted by pjfoster13 on 2/26/2014 4:27:00 PM (view original):
I also wish the devs still accepted suggestions, because I would make this one-

Have [dev+stam] be an absolute value, but allow [dur] and [stam] to fluctuate individually on an inversely proportional basis.
So like Arias would always be an 85, but based on the year-by-year usage, Mike could mold him to a guy who had 50 dur and 35 stam. It could be formulaic based on the ratio of IP to games played.  You could convert starters to relievers and vice versa. That would create a definition for a guy like John Smoltz, who went from 30 dur 80 stam to 80 dur 30 stam and then back again, and would allow for a more fluid game experience. 

That is all. I apologize for misunderstanding Makeup, thank you all for enlightening me and for providing player examples, it helps to see players in other worlds.
Love this idea.  It's been brought up before, but I imagine it's too difficult to implement.
2/26/2014 5:09 PM
Just asked you to show evidence.  Nobody was 100% against the theory, but you have to show evidence to make your point.  
2/26/2014 5:11 PM
"Then maybe they load up their pitching staff with 98 make-up and 44/51/47 type pitchers on long-term deals. All of a sudden, they're getting blown up. "

Hey man, maybe the only way to test the hypothesis is to sacrifice a newbie to the WIS gods and see what happens. Maybe they WONT get blown up ... how would we know until we tried ? A team full of 99 Makeups would be awfully sneaky, luring their opponents into a false sense of confidence and then scratching and clawing for victories like that
2/26/2014 5:34 PM
And don't take my "lack of work" personally, you are looking for very specific information to prove myself.  I would need to provide two identical players or at least virtually similar players except for one attribute, AND have them play in the same ballpark effects AND have them face similar opponents, cmonnn you know I can't do that.

It's my job to come up with the hypotheses and YOU disprove me with the post from the devs. And even then, "You have to search for your own explanations even when you're told to accept the facts."  The information I would be looking for to prove my theory would be a team like Mike proposed that was entirely made up of guys with crappy skills but 99 makeup, and we would see how they did. We are assuming they would be terrible, even me, but maybe they'd over-perform compared to what we would expect them to be. Maybe they would win 60 games instead of 50.  That would be statistically significant, wouldn't it? 
2/26/2014 6:23 PM
Posted by pjfoster13 on 2/26/2014 5:34:00 PM (view original):
"Then maybe they load up their pitching staff with 98 make-up and 44/51/47 type pitchers on long-term deals. All of a sudden, they're getting blown up. "

Hey man, maybe the only way to test the hypothesis is to sacrifice a newbie to the WIS gods and see what happens. Maybe they WONT get blown up ... how would we know until we tried ? A team full of 99 Makeups would be awfully sneaky, luring their opponents into a false sense of confidence and then scratching and clawing for victories like that
You have teams.  Test it.   Let us know.
2/26/2014 7:13 PM
hook me up with a promo code, boss. I'll beta test anything you want
2/26/2014 7:41 PM
It's your theory, test it.    I tested "Rock in RF" and "Positive plays have more positive value than errors/negative plays have negative value" on my dime.
2/27/2014 8:45 AM

you are truly a man of the people, Michael, don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise

2/27/2014 11:15 AM
http://whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=4131719

http://whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=4131736

Two right handed relief pitchers. Both played on the same team their whole careers, both very similar in ratings, both have always had the same role (SuA) for their whole careers. One has a makeup of 59, one has a makeup of 87. They were even called up in the same season. After 8 seasons of pitching under the exact same circumstances their career numbers compare like so..

OBP... .294... .297
SLG... .359... .370
WHIP... 1.17... 1.20

IMO, doesn't look like makeup has any bearing on in-game performance. Only development and decline.
2/27/2014 11:25 AM
Posted by pjfoster13 on 2/26/2014 6:23:00 PM (view original):
And don't take my "lack of work" personally, you are looking for very specific information to prove myself.  I would need to provide two identical players or at least virtually similar players except for one attribute, AND have them play in the same ballpark effects AND have them face similar opponents, cmonnn you know I can't do that.

It's my job to come up with the hypotheses and YOU disprove me with the post from the devs. And even then, "You have to search for your own explanations even when you're told to accept the facts."  The information I would be looking for to prove my theory would be a team like Mike proposed that was entirely made up of guys with crappy skills but 99 makeup, and we would see how they did. We are assuming they would be terrible, even me, but maybe they'd over-perform compared to what we would expect them to be. Maybe they would win 60 games instead of 50.  That would be statistically significant, wouldn't it? 
You're the one with the theory that's counter to the accepted norm.  You should have evidence to back it up.  Otherwise I'm confused why you'd believe it in the first place.
2/27/2014 11:42 AM
The thread went kind of like this;

You:
  Make-up is the ****.  You can ignore the other ratings if a player has high make-up.
Everybody else:  Huh?   That doesn't seem right.  Do you have some examples?
Y:   Look at my minor league guys!!!
EE:   Uh, yeah, minor league stats aren't a good barometer for much.
Y:   Well, maybe I'm wrong but maybe not.   Someone should test my theory.
EE:  It's your theory, maybe that someone should be you.
Y:  OK.  Send me a credit!!!
EE:  Uh, no.
2/27/2014 1:17 PM

Yep, I was there. So, how bout that credit?

Mongoose- that is a very good side-by-side.  I would have needed someone else to volunteer that info because I did not have the resources in my league.  I shall accept that Makeup =/= It, despite the idea that it would make sense if it did.

2/27/2014 1:38 PM
Wait here.  I'm working on it.

And I listed two lefties on the same team earlier.  
2/27/2014 2:54 PM
i want to come up with a theory against the norm and test it for S's and G's 
2/27/2014 3:36 PM
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