Pitcher ratings Topic

damag
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Yeah, sorry didn't mean to imply that it was The Thing To Do.

All that happened was, when I found out about it, it made me look into the logic behind taking such an extreme.

5/16/2014 1:25 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/16/2014 12:38:00 PM (view original):
I like it when owners automatically dismiss a player because of some pre-set belief. 

I haven't checked for awhile but it was 68/32.   I wouldn't dismiss 32% of AB as unimportant.
Just checked one of my worlds (Mantle) which is around 143-144 games in.

The breakdown is around 64/36.  Agree, you can't ignore 36%.

5/16/2014 1:50 PM
MikeT23
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Checked my other three(not Mantle)
Greenberg(140)  64%
MG(last year)  66.6%
Coop(last year)  68.5%

So, yeah, he's probably ignoring about 1/3 of the hitters. 
5/16/2014 2:05 PM
MikeT23
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66.9% in Riley. 
5/16/2014 2:07 PM
damag
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His major league staff averages 75 vR, second best in the league, and 67 vL, which is league average. That's hardly "ignoring." Not like the guy signed a bunch of stiffs with 45 vL just to get a pitching staff on the cheap.

His lowest vR major league pitcher has a vR of 66. I think he just kind of figured - and this ties back into the OP idea of vR above all - that it's not worth going below a certain level of vR. And LHP's are where you find pitchers who can be major league in other areas, but not in vR.

5/16/2014 2:58 PM
MikeT23
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If it works, it works.   But he's dismissing, I assume, at least three pitchers on my Coop staff and maybe one more.

Player Lvl Pos Age $
Will Mahoney (R) ML P 24 20 99 56 80 89 88 90 31 74 76 53 46 27 $360K
Jimmy Powell (L) ML P 26 29 92 70 91 96 88 72 64 85 76 64 64 44 $5.6M
Andres Jimenez (R) ML P 36 29 87 78 49 71 88 36 74 73 60 44 39 0 $6.5M
Earl Willis (L) ML P 32 73 96 17 86 87 81 45 64 87 92 0 0 0 $12.6M
Andres Castilla (R) ML P 25 26 77 44 81 71 81 98 84 79 77 46 57 0 $378K
Ivan Bonilla (R) ML P 25 27 99 97 50 60 79 33 76 83 72 67 43 0 $360K
George Ford (L) ML P 37 78 96 33 94 85 78 77 82 90 81 0 0 0 $7.5M
Kyle Anderson (R) ML P 30 28 79 98 57 69 73 39 81 86 79 61 60 39 $3.5M
Cesar Suarez (L) ML P 27 20 96 67 53 75 72 39 62 79 70 55 75 0 $1.1M
Al Wagner (L) ML P 27 28 76 59 99 65 63 83 47 68 79 60 52 0 $360K
George Cannon (L) ML P 29 19 71 70 57 75 52 91 81 95 83 57 48 0 $360K

Suarez:  549 IP, 1.28 WHIP, 3.62 ERA
Wagner:  130, 1.26, 4.55
Cannon:  407, 1.43, 3.97

Suarez is obviously above league average while Wagner/Cannon are pretty close(depending on which stat you use 1.33/4.07 over the last 3-4 seasons) for 360k each.    To me, that's akin to saying "I don't use 1B with less than 85 power" while letting a Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Mark Borowski rot in AAA. 
5/16/2014 3:39 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by bripat42 on 5/16/2014 2:31:00 PM (view original):
That this anonymous owner is "ignoring" roughly one-third of batters is second-hand knowledge, at best. Certainly, it can be confirmed that he has an all-RHP staff, but no one but him can state for certain why. In HBD, just as in real life, quality left-handed pitchers are not always abundant, and a running story line in any city with a MLB team always is that the general manager is looking for another quality lefty. One lefty gets injured, another starts showing his age, and the only lefties on the farm are a season or two away -- this isn't an extreme hypothetical, and if fixing it short-term means overspending on the trade market, that might be less appealing than going with an all-RHP staff. It happens.
Since damag said "He purposely...", I assumed said owner had made it public knowledge that he had no interest in LHP.   Maybe my assumption was wrong but I see no reason for damag to make a definitive statement on such a matter.
5/16/2014 3:45 PM
damag
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The guy actually said it in world chat once. I said "WTF?" So I started looking into it, to see if or how it could work.

To be completely clear, I'm not advocating it in any way. I only brought it up to show how "vR above all else" could be taken to an extreme.

5/16/2014 3:55 PM
MikeT23
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Since this is a discussion about pitch ratings, the three lefties at the bottom of my staff probably illustrate how there's no be all to end all in a rating.   At best, they would be league average ratings in some categories but not all and could easily be dismissed.

Suarez, with 53 control and no pitch over 80, could be dismissed by those with pre-set cut-offs.   However, with his 70ish splits and three pitches over 70, he's doing pretty well.
Wagner, with splits in the low 60s and a P1 of 68, could be dismissed.   However, his 99 control and 4 pitches of 68/79/60/52 are allowing him to limit baserunners.
Cannon, with a vomit-inducing 52 VR and 57 control, might never get a chance.   However, with velocity/GB/P1/P2 AVERAGING 87.5, he's preventing runs at a better than league average rate.

 

5/16/2014 4:16 PM
MikeT23
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And Jimenez probably best defines why I value VR over the other ratings.   49 control, best two pitches of 73/60.   Almost 1800 career innings and 1.31/3.76 numbers.    And he's been much better for me than he was earlier in his career.
5/16/2014 4:24 PM
arcticlegend
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On the subject of pitcher ratings, has anyone looked at pitcher fielding? The chart in the Player Settings menu doesn't list any guidelines for pitcher fielding, and I've noticed their ratings are all over the map. Some have a range near 0, while others are up near 60.

I'm wondering whether I should take this into account when evaluating pitchers. If a guy has a vR and control of 80, but a range of 2, is he better overall than a guy with vR and control of 75 and a range of 50?
5/18/2014 11:32 PM
topoftheworl
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I ran a regression a couple of years ago. I probably should have used more data so the power of my findings wasn't great, but basically everything MikeT is saying is what I found. Big drop off after VR and P2 had almost no effct at all. I would add that GB and Vol had a slightly bigger effect than P2. P3-5's effect was statistically insignificant.
5/19/2014 12:45 AM
joev188
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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/15/2014 4:28:00 PM (view original):
Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Ryne Narveson averaged 4.15 BB per 9 in almost 3500 innings and won a CY.   I got him from an owner who insisted on 70+ control. 
Was this gut on steroiods?  He jumped 3 overal and in stamina and durability  and all his pitch ratings when he was about 32.
5/20/2014 12:02 AM
topoftheworl
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Posted by joev188 on 5/20/2014 12:02:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/15/2014 4:28:00 PM (view original):
Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Ryne Narveson averaged 4.15 BB per 9 in almost 3500 innings and won a CY.   I got him from an owner who insisted on 70+ control. 
Was this gut on steroiods?  He jumped 3 overal and in stamina and durability  and all his pitch ratings when he was about 32.
Walks like a duck, talks like a duck. . .
5/20/2014 1:49 AM
MikeT23
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Medical recovery.

5/20/2014 6:53 AM
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