Posted by alleyviper on 5/8/2015 3:46:00 PM (view original):
See, that's exactly the problem. Saying his history questions whether it's even a valid strategy ignores all the other owners who may actually be doing it but don't care to come to the forums, aren't interested in discussing the update, or who don't want to take part in the echo chamber. It's intellectually lazy.

So instead of discounting the idea outright because of who said it, actually discuss the idea and see if there's any merit behind it.

I can certainly cite no less than two examples of guys that I've drafted in no small part because of their current ratings and their proximity to the majors. They weren't called up immediately, no, but I drafted both with intention of calling them up before they were fully developed because I knew they were close enough to contributing to the big league team. And I've certainly fancied the idea of actually keeping my college scouting up and bottoming out my HS scouting with the intention of drafting guys who would contribute sooner than later. It's something that I think could be worthwhile and it would be unfortunate to lose current ratings for draft prospects before I even got a shot to try it out.

So I come to the thread and lo and behold I see someone has raised that exact concern about losing current prospect ratings, but instead of actual discussion of the pros and cons, it's just ignored because of the person who posted it. How is that healthy for discussion, healthy for new ideas, healthy for growth and improvement of this game?

Alleyviper,
Why would you ever use this strategy instead of drafting the best prospect available and then trading them for someone who can help immediately? In every world I have seen (small sample size admittedly) prospects are always overvalued and vets are easily obtainable. Is it purely because you want a young, pre-arb starter and do not want to pay a contracted vet?
Just curious.
JRNY

With low domestic scouting, I've drafted based on current ratings only.   On several occassions.    It was a way to get around spending money on scouting.   As I said, I wasn't being critical of ryhno for doing, I've done it myself, but the reasoning he was using was not what he practiced.   The true reason was the reason I did it.  To save scouting money to spend elsewhere.    He was using a dishonest argument and that's why it was dismissed.

Same thing with IFA.   Low IFA, high prospect money.   IFA shows up demanding 4m.  I bid 5m and get outbid.   I keep bidding because I know he's worth it based on initial demands.

Those loopholes are closed.   Although, even with low IFA, one could still bid a large amount and, if quickly outbid, take an educated guess that someone with more scouting is bidding high. 

Trading relies on someone else not only to have interest in the player that I draft but to also have the same valuation of quality of that player and have a player on their end that I covet. I've certainly had plenty of guys who I drafted or signed as IFAs who I thought would be nice trade chips who instead got no interest at all. There are a lot of variables involved there that would have to fall into place, and if instead I see a guy sitting right there who can fill a hole and contribute right away I may well be inclined to just take that guy and roll with him instead of hoping the stars align.

As well, I'm not even sure that the draft pool spits out enough players to make it viable strategy in the first place, but I'd sure like to try. And I was planning to steer my payroll in that direction in one of my worlds. Now I won't get to find out.

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 3:51:00 PM (view original):
With low domestic scouting, I've drafted based on current ratings only.   On several occassions.    It was a way to get around spending money on scouting.   As I said, I wasn't being critical of ryhno for doing, I've done it myself, but the reasoning he was using was not what he practiced.   The true reason was the reason I did it.  To save scouting money to spend elsewhere.    He was using a dishonest argument and that's why it was dismissed.

Same thing with IFA.   Low IFA, high prospect money.   IFA shows up demanding 4m.  I bid 5m and get outbid.   I keep bidding because I know he's worth it based on initial demands.

Those loopholes are closed.   Although, even with low IFA, one could still bid a large amount and, if quickly outbid, take an educated guess that someone with more scouting is bidding high. 

Unless two people with low IFA budgets are bidding against each other, which would be hilarious. Someone could end up paying $16 million for a complete loser. I like it.

The best drafted player, using his currents, can easily be found at the end of FA.  It's not a viable strategy.   I doubt anyone who knows what they're doing uses it.

Posted by arcticlegend on 5/8/2015 3:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 3:51:00 PM (view original):
With low domestic scouting, I've drafted based on current ratings only.   On several occassions.    It was a way to get around spending money on scouting.   As I said, I wasn't being critical of ryhno for doing, I've done it myself, but the reasoning he was using was not what he practiced.   The true reason was the reason I did it.  To save scouting money to spend elsewhere.    He was using a dishonest argument and that's why it was dismissed.

Same thing with IFA.   Low IFA, high prospect money.   IFA shows up demanding 4m.  I bid 5m and get outbid.   I keep bidding because I know he's worth it based on initial demands.

Those loopholes are closed.   Although, even with low IFA, one could still bid a large amount and, if quickly outbid, take an educated guess that someone with more scouting is bidding high. 

Unless two people with low IFA budgets are bidding against each other, which would be hilarious. Someone could end up paying $16 million for a complete loser. I like it.

True.   One good reason to put enough money into scouting to matter since you won't be able to see currents.

A win for WifS update!!!

#1 pick in my most recent draft.   22 y/o.

Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Ellie Kolarek

No one uses that guy in the bigs. 

His history doesn't question whether it's a valid strategy. It questions whether anyone does it, and it questions his reasons for making the suggestion. I'm not sure how many more ways that can be stated.

Losing the ability to get around scouting $ in the draft — sorting by current ratings and looking at Makeup — is a good thing. Anyone without a pick at the top of the draft had no incentive to spend more than minimally on any domestic scouting. Changing that has a meaningful impact on competitiveness.

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 3:57:00 PM (view original):
The best drafted player, using his currents, can easily be found at the end of FA.  It's not a viable strategy.   I doubt anyone who knows what they're doing uses it.

That guy found at the end of FA is a 33-year old journeyman who's not going to grow, however. If people knew they could find that 33-year old journeyman and plug him right into their lineup, only he's 23 and is going to grow another 10-15 points across the board, we may see it done more frequently.

My pick at 15:   Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Alan Thomas   22 y/o

It will be two seasons before he's a contributor.

Posted by alleyviper on 5/8/2015 4:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 3:57:00 PM (view original):
The best drafted player, using his currents, can easily be found at the end of FA.  It's not a viable strategy.   I doubt anyone who knows what they're doing uses it.

That guy found at the end of FA is a 33-year old journeyman who's not going to grow, however. If people knew they could find that 33-year old journeyman and plug him right into their lineup, only he's 23 and is going to grow another 10-15 points across the board, we may see it done more frequently.

If you're looking for someone to develop, you sign the 33 y/o journeyman for 1 season(or pull him from your minors).

You put the 23 y/o in the minors for a season or two, let him develop, get three seasons of minimum wage, 2 arbs and sign him to a LT until he's 33.   Much more efficient way to do business.

And that's what people do.

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 3:36:00 PM (view original):
FWIW, not one negative comment has been made in my worlds.  It's largely been ignored.   I think that's because everyone knows we're all starting at square one.  No one is getting a hundred yard lead in a 300 yard race. 

I am.

You have 6m and 3m in the worlds we share.   You got two steps in a 300 yard race.   Meaningless.

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 3:51:00 PM (view original):
With low domestic scouting, I've drafted based on current ratings only.   On several occassions.    It was a way to get around spending money on scouting.   As I said, I wasn't being critical of ryhno for doing, I've done it myself, but the reasoning he was using was not what he practiced.   The true reason was the reason I did it.  To save scouting money to spend elsewhere.    He was using a dishonest argument and that's why it was dismissed.

Same thing with IFA.   Low IFA, high prospect money.   IFA shows up demanding 4m.  I bid 5m and get outbid.   I keep bidding because I know he's worth it based on initial demands.

Those loopholes are closed.   Although, even with low IFA, one could still bid a large amount and, if quickly outbid, take an educated guess that someone with more scouting is bidding high. 

This adds credence to the argument that they should eliminate the Budget Analysis page.

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 4:03:00 PM (view original):

Posted by alleyviper on 5/8/2015 4:01:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 5/8/2015 3:57:00 PM (view original):
The best drafted player, using his currents, can easily be found at the end of FA.  It's not a viable strategy.   I doubt anyone who knows what they're doing uses it.

That guy found at the end of FA is a 33-year old journeyman who's not going to grow, however. If people knew they could find that 33-year old journeyman and plug him right into their lineup, only he's 23 and is going to grow another 10-15 points across the board, we may see it done more frequently.

If you're looking for someone to develop, you sign the 33 y/o journeyman for 1 season(or pull him from your minors).

You put the 23 y/o in the minors for a season or two, let him develop, get three seasons of minimum wage, 2 arbs and sign him to a LT until he's 33.   Much more efficient way to do business.

And that's what people do.

To be fair, I generally have 6-8 players in my minors that I'm comfortable using for extended periods of time in case of injury.   All are better than the best drafted player.   Every season.    Maybe my situation is unique but, with a 40 man roster, it shouldn't be.    If you have 15 players with 4 years or more experience in your minors, there's no reason a draftee should need to be placed directly in the bigs.   Otherwise, I'd suggest you've built your team poorly.