Well not counting the 2B who has posted 3 straight OPS of over 1.000 or the GG winning SS who hit 23 HR's, The FA C who hit 313/390/581 with 36 HR's The 5 mil RF who hit 41 and the 4 SP who posted WHIPs of 1.30 or less with ERA's ranging from 3.72 to 4.03 the team is a total wasteland and you should let all your FA walk, Trade any decent player announce you are "rebuilding this crap team" and win 50-60 games for the next 5 seasons.

First, crickett was being sarcastic.
Second, the team is NOT a mess.   Add some hitting and it's a pretty solid team.

Last season, you had the top fielding team in my opinion.  You had well above league average pitching.   In most worlds, 777 runs is well above average but, apparently, Aaron is a hitting world.    Nonetheless, you seem intent on taking the "I gotta tear this down and start over" path.    You aren't going to find many people willing to help you move down that road in the forums.   It's called "tanking".   And, for the most part, it's frowned upon.

That was probably harsher than it was intended to be.    In short, your wording, makes it sound like you took over a team with a bloated payroll and no talent.  Therefore, you have no chance to compete.   That isn't true.   It's a slightly above average team, IMO, with 54m in payroll.  Rather than blow it up, I think you can compete immediately by adding a few pieces.   You have the two most important defensive positions covered with Hatfield and Gandarilla.  Both can hit at, or above, average for those positions.   Rivera is a fine 2B(3rd most important D position) who rakes.  In fact, I think your positions are covered except C/3B. 

I don't love your pitching but they put up good numbers. 

If it were me, I'd get a C and a 3B, try to upgrade hitting on the cheap and find some pitching.   What I wouldn't do is what crickett sarcastically suggested and you responded with "Basically, that is the plan."    That is not necessary.   New owners almost always think it is.

Mike,

At risk of not offending anyone, I removed most of the post.  I am looking at a lot of the stuff you said.  As an elder of the game, I am trying to look at a lot of your stuff, and see what I can find.  I think I am more panicked because I lack any context beyond the couple obviously good players, and the obviously good prospects to find what is the useful middle-ground.  I realized quickly when I looked at everyone who is Aaron...I am in trouble.

Basically, it is a congregation of everyone who is excellent at all things WIS.

Well, I'd probably disagree with that last sentence also.   I hardly recognize any of the owners.   But I generally only play in the best, most competitive worlds.   So I think you may have a congregation of owners who play in worlds where more than a few owners are relatively clueless.

I'm sure that will **** some people off but such is life in a public world.    You have hunters and hunted.   And the hunted aren't usually bears.   They're squirrels and rabbits.

Well, I am just hoping I am a little more like my Hoops Dynasty self then my Gridiron Dynasty self.  At least I could exist in HD.  GD. Not so much.

ahausla and Mike-- I kind of think this team really is on the downslide, and I probably would tear it down if I were starting with it.

The team's got the up-the middle down fine, including a really good half (albeit the wrong half) of the catching platoon.  But it really doesn't have a championship-quality player, or anything close to it, in any of the corners.  That in and of itself isn't a big deal-- you can fill the 4 corners with reasonable players for $10-15M total-- but the pitching has major issues.  It was a little better than average last season-- 4.09 ERA in STL (NL) is within about 0.1 what you'd expect in Aaron-- but he got an unrepeatable career season from Baek, Lampkin is a 35 yo FA, and Bevil is an FA and has been below average for park and league over his career anyway.

ahausla could make 4-6 key FA signings at a cost of about $30M (if he has that budget) and try to either outhit his pitching or put a ridiculous defense out there and hope it holds up the pitching staff.  It's certainly not hopeless.  But with the Hall of Fame 2B at 34 years old and likely in decline, the trajectory to winning 90+ games a couple seasons in a row seems long.

My point is that, while I agree that lots of new owners tear down someone else's dynasty to rebuild their very own personal mediocrity, I wouldn't fault ahausla for tearing this particular team down.  

ahausla--if you do tear it down, you really really HAVE to get a mentor not in Aaron to vet your trades.  You have a couple of studs and you set yourself back many seasons by trading them for 3 day-old, half-eaten reuben sandwiches (and you will get a TON of offers like that).

When I started, I took over a team which had come up just short of .500.  Yet that team had, truly, almost no talent on it.  I had one decent young starter, a closer, and three good prospects in the minors.  The entire team was replacement level trash.  I say that confidently because only the defensive SS and the closer went on to good careers after I let them go.  No other player was even picked up.

First thing I decided, I wouldn't tank.  I wanted to learn the game, and I realized that tanking was the easiest way out.  So I pretty much kept the team the same, adding a handful of free agents.

The team was terrible, and I ended up with the 5th pick in my second season anyway.

In that first "wasted" season, I learned:

- exactly why my players were crap.
- exactly why my first free agent signings were crap and not to do that again.
- that any trade offers I got were only trying to go after those exact three prospects I had.  Two of them are still on my team.
- how to run the game and not make stupid mistakes like Rule 5 drops and releasing players for nothing.

Took me a few more seasons to really understand the value of defense, which I neglected while looking for hitters.

Took even a few more seasons to really figure out what makes an effective major league pitcher.

Took eight seasons to make the playoffs.  Built through the draft, added free agents when it was time, finally made big trades when it was time for the final push.

Didn't tank.  Frankly, unless a super-deep draft season comes up - or the new scouting ratings have a big effect -  I'll never have a HOF caliber player on my team.  The tankers get those.  But I don't care, I like the Ws better than the Ls.

Posted by MikeT23 on 7/23/2015 5:06:00 PM (view original):
I'll explain.  ahuasla is new.    Very basic understanding.   He has an aging team.  The world has a handful of powerhouses, let's call them "sharks", and some teams that look like the effort isn't there, we'll call them "tankers".    ahuasla is stuck in the middle.   No one is giving up anything of value to a n00b for 30+ y/o player(and that's his best three).    So you've got the sharks smelling the blood in the water.   He offers up Gandarilla and someone swoops in and offers him three AAAA players.   Honestly, that might even be his best move.   But then he'll have virtually no good players and, if you can't figure out what makes players good/bad, you're not learning.   The easiest way to do that is by managing them.

Anyway, it looks like he has a two year window.    I suggested staying out of the big money FA market and picking up a handful of cheap FA near the end of FA.  Two year deals and he asked if a mutual would be good.   Of course it would.    He doesn't plan to dabble in IFA so he'll have plenty of payroll.

IMO, the best thing for him to do is make a run at a WC and maybe lightning strikes.   Maybe he misses the playoffs.   But, either way, he'll learn from some mistakes without upsetting the balance of the playoff teams and won't be tied into bad big contracts when he has a better understanding.

FWIW, I think telling any new owner to blow it up is horrible advice.   That's the first inclination of every new owner.  "Gonna make the team mine!!!"   I think it's far better to offer advice on how to win some games now, learn and not be tied into huge payrolls due to bad signings.

Fair 'nuff.  I said I would trade the guys in carefully vetted trades by an experienced player.  What I was unclear about is that I would hold those guys rather than just dumping their salaries.  Basically, if Aaron is as terrible a market for moving veterans as you say it is, we both end up keeping the veterans and winning as many as possible.

And we completely agree on how to do the rest of it; late cycle free agents, no long contracts.