I once called a player up after 10 games.   I felt like the division was slipping away.  I was something like 4-6 and the division leader was 9-1.   We had a 3 game series and I didn't feel I could afford to lose 2 of 3.    The call-up was much better than the guy he was replacing and I decided I couldn't wait.

I wish I could say I swept the series and won the division but I don't remember.   I just remember that's when I decided you can't always hold players back. 

Posted by alogman1 on 10/5/2015 7:01:00 PM (view original):
Just didn't like the tone of the first response.  And have seen it in other threads.  He just asked a question.  He didn't need a brow beating about how it was the wrong thing to do, as if it had never worked out successfully in ways other than the exceptions noted by the responding poster in later responses.  

I didn't read it that way but, then again, I'm probably one of the people who has said it's the wrong thing to do in other threads.    As I said earlier, always doing it is dumb.   Never doing it is equally dumb.    Anyone who claims it's the only way to play is being dumb. 

Posted by alogman1 on 10/5/2015 7:01:00 PM (view original):
Just didn't like the tone of the first response.  And have seen it in other threads.  He just asked a question.  He didn't need a brow beating about how it was the wrong thing to do, as if it had never worked out successfully in ways other than the exceptions noted by the responding poster in later responses.  

What in the first response is remotely browbeating? I answered the question and said there was no debate about # of days. I then said there is debate about whether it's smart to do. I cited two facts:
- If he's better than the guy on the ML team you're weakening the ML team.
- Half of the first 20 games are intradivision games.

Then asked whether it's worth saving a year and some $ and risking falling short a game.

Please tell me what about that is browbeating. Or wrong. Or wrong based on the record of a crappy team I took as part of a swap with another commissioner who took an equally crappy team so both our worlds could start. Or show me where I said there's only one successful strategy. Or that one should never, ever hold a player back — something I've done under the right conditions.

Posted by alogman1 on 10/5/2015 7:01:00 PM (view original):
Just didn't like the tone of the first response.  And have seen it in other threads.  He just asked a question.  He didn't need a brow beating about how it was the wrong thing to do, as if it had never worked out successfully in ways other than the exceptions noted by the responding poster in later responses.  

There was nothing wrong with the first response.  He answered the question, and then offered other considerations that should be taken into account before making a decision about waiting or not.

It was the original poster who, in a later post, implied that it was the only right thing to do ("common sense that all good owners use").  Which clearly is wrong.

Keep in mind, there are still new users who come to play the game and check out the forums to learn.  Even though this particular topic may have been discussed to death in around 87 previous threads, this may be the only one that Joe Newbie sees.  And if the only thing he sees in the thread is:

Q: How many days should I hold a rookie back before promoting him to the majors so I can get an extra season of control?
A: 20 days.

. . . . then Joe Newbie is probably getting a disservice in the implication that holding rookies back is what "all good owners do".

Posted by tecwrg on 10/6/2015 7:52:00 AM (view original):

Posted by alogman1 on 10/5/2015 7:01:00 PM (view original):
Just didn't like the tone of the first response.  And have seen it in other threads.  He just asked a question.  He didn't need a brow beating about how it was the wrong thing to do, as if it had never worked out successfully in ways other than the exceptions noted by the responding poster in later responses.  

There was nothing wrong with the first response.  He answered the question, and then offered other considerations that should be taken into account before making a decision about waiting or not.

It was the original poster who, in a later post, implied that it was the only right thing to do ("common sense that all good owners use").  Which clearly is wrong.

Keep in mind, there are still new users who come to play the game and check out the forums to learn.  Even though this particular topic may have been discussed to death in around 87 previous threads, this may be the only one that Joe Newbie sees.  And if the only thing he sees in the thread is:

Q: How many days should I hold a rookie back before promoting him to the majors so I can get an extra season of control?
A: 20 days.

. . . . then Joe Newbie is probably getting a disservice in the implication that holding rookies back is what "all good owners do".

The need for a lecture on the merits of the move was unneeded, and the second response came off as arrogant and condescending and implying that the only time one should hold a rookie back was under the circumstances stated in the post.   Also, an owner, joshkvt, lecturing another owner with a clearly superior record in the game, jetsons, I found, let's say, interesting.

No one should be saying one strategy is the only way to play the game, so I don't agree it is what "all good owners do" either, but I wouldn't have responded favorably to a post with that tone, one I have seen in other responses from this poster in other topics.  Maybe it's coming off differently to me than it is to others.

And if it had been Joe Newbie, the second response indicating that anyone who holds a rookie back other than in the stated circumstances it was acceptable to the poster lacked common sense would be a disservice as well.  

Posted by joshkvt on 10/6/2015 12:17:00 AM (view original):

Posted by alogman1 on 10/5/2015 7:01:00 PM (view original):
Just didn't like the tone of the first response.  And have seen it in other threads.  He just asked a question.  He didn't need a brow beating about how it was the wrong thing to do, as if it had never worked out successfully in ways other than the exceptions noted by the responding poster in later responses.  

What in the first response is remotely browbeating? I answered the question and said there was no debate about # of days. I then said there is debate about whether it's smart to do. I cited two facts:
- If he's better than the guy on the ML team you're weakening the ML team.
- Half of the first 20 games are intradivision games.

Then asked whether it's worth saving a year and some $ and risking falling short a game.

Please tell me what about that is browbeating. Or wrong. Or wrong based on the record of a crappy team I took as part of a swap with another commissioner who took an equally crappy team so both our worlds could start. Or show me where I said there's only one successful strategy. Or that one should never, ever hold a player back — something I've done under the right conditions.

Your right conditions aren't the end-all and be-all of successful strategy in the game, sorry. 

And regarding your team that's in the tank, it's not that hard to turn a team around to the point where they are putting up a respectable record.  Maybe your mentor MikeT23 can bump the thread where he talks about this, and his past successful quick turnarounds of crappy teams, that is if you still feel you have anything to learn about the game.  

Good to know that you dispprove of arrogant, condescending posts. The second response clearly was full of snark. "Common sense all good owners use" deserved it.

I'll consider 20-22 a respectable turnaround from a 7-39 start that coincided with my busiest stretch of work each year.

Back to the question of service time..............I have a player that I am holding back. But he was brought up at the end of last season for ONLY the playoffs. He never saw any regular season days on the ML roster. He was brought up for one playoff series. His service time reads 0.00 when I highlight it with the cursor. Do I only need to wait the 20 HBD days? Or should I wait until 25-30 days to account for the number of days up for the one playoff series from the previous season?

Playoff time doesn't count. 

Thank you