Durability and Recovery question Topic

torrone
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In the 1st game of the1st round of the playoffs, the  pitcher #1 threw 115 pitches(8 IP) and  pitcher #2 113(8.2 IP) respectively. Pitcher #1 has a DUR/STA of 30/89 and Pitcher #2 31/89.  Health is 99 & 98 respectively. Come game 4, my guy(#2) was at 100% and ready to go, while his guy(#1) was only at 80% and didn't start. Since #1 was his ace and one of the top pitchers in the league I was more than happy not to see him and we subsequently won the series in 4 games.
Question is, why given the same number of pitches in game 1, the same amount of rest, and virtually the same ratings, would one guy be %100 while the other only 80%?

8/23/2010 10:10 AM
tecwrg
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How much rest did they have before Game 1?

A guy who's been at 100% for only one cycle will experience more fatigue than a similar guy (similar durabiliity/stamina, and similar number of pitches thrown)who's been at 100% for two or more cycles.

I've always contended that all 100%'s are not equal when it comes to fatigue and recovery.
8/23/2010 10:31 AM
torrone
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You are right, tec. The other owner informed me that his SP had just gotten back to 100% while mine had been there for a couple of cycles. I guess that's the answer.
8/23/2010 12:28 PM
rebelt
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Also, I have heard that, based upon a combination of a player's stamina and durability, he has a yearly "limit" on how many pitches he can throw---i.e., once he hits that limit, he begins to recover more slowly and tire more quickly.

Is this the case? Does that actually happen?
8/23/2010 3:40 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by rebelt on 8/23/2010 3:40:00 PM (view original):
Also, I have heard that, based upon a combination of a player's stamina and durability, he has a yearly "limit" on how many pitches he can throw---i.e., once he hits that limit, he begins to recover more slowly and tire more quickly.

Is this the case? Does that actually happen?
No.
8/23/2010 3:45 PM
The__Kid
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Each pitcher DOES have an approximate number of pitches in the tank from ST game #1.    See:  www.whatifsports.com/devchat/devchat.asp Question around 1:07pm
8/23/2010 3:56 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by The__Kid on 8/23/2010 3:56:00 PM (view original):
Each pitcher DOES have an approximate number of pitches in the tank from ST game #1.    See:  www.whatifsports.com/devchat/devchat.asp Question around 1:07pm
The "tank" drains with each appearance based on pitches thrown and stamina, and replenishes based on durability with each day of rest. 

It's not a set number for the entire season.
8/23/2010 4:00 PM
jvford
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Posted by rebelt on 8/23/2010 3:40:00 PM (view original):
Also, I have heard that, based upon a combination of a player's stamina and durability, he has a yearly "limit" on how many pitches he can throw---i.e., once he hits that limit, he begins to recover more slowly and tire more quickly.

Is this the case? Does that actually happen?
Well, sort of...

I ran an experiment in my minors for a couple of seasons in an effort to determine what "full rest" was.  I set a couple of pitchers to 80/80 TPC/MPC with 1 pull ratings, and tracked their fatigue before, after, and in-between starts.  Initially, it seemed that full rest was about 145% (if a pitcher was at 45% after a start, and recovered 25%/day, it would take 4 days to fully recover but he would show 100% after 3 days).  But, as the season went on and the pitchers accumulated more innings, they recovered slower and the max appeared to be lower (maybe around 135%, i forget).  So, while I don't believe there's a hard limit to how many pitches a pitcher can throw, I do believe that there's a cumulative affect on fatigue.
8/23/2010 4:00 PM
The__Kid
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From support via a ticket:       

What you are experiencing is normal and the way the game is supposed to work. If you want your pitchers to recover to 100% you need to rest them for a longer period of time at 100% in order for them not to dip below 100% after pitching in 1 game. It's a cumulative effect.

Emphasis mine.

I was inquiring about why a pitcher at 100% (STA 90/DUR 20) was at 85% after throwing only 8 pitches in a game.   He had 200+/- IP at the time.
8/23/2010 4:09 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by The__Kid on 8/23/2010 4:09:00 PM (view original):
From support via a ticket:       

What you are experiencing is normal and the way the game is supposed to work. If you want your pitchers to recover to 100% you need to rest them for a longer period of time at 100% in order for them not to dip below 100% after pitching in 1 game. It's a cumulative effect.

Emphasis mine.

I was inquiring about why a pitcher at 100% (STA 90/DUR 20) was at 85% after throwing only 8 pitches in a game.   He had 200+/- IP at the time.
Cumulative, yes.  But only over a short-term.  Not all season long.

You pitch, the tank gets drained.  You rest, the tank refills.  The more you pitch without rest, the more the tank drains.  The more you rest in between appearances, the more the tank refills until it's full.
8/23/2010 4:41 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by jvford on 8/23/2010 4:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by rebelt on 8/23/2010 3:40:00 PM (view original):
Also, I have heard that, based upon a combination of a player's stamina and durability, he has a yearly "limit" on how many pitches he can throw---i.e., once he hits that limit, he begins to recover more slowly and tire more quickly.

Is this the case? Does that actually happen?
Well, sort of...

I ran an experiment in my minors for a couple of seasons in an effort to determine what "full rest" was.  I set a couple of pitchers to 80/80 TPC/MPC with 1 pull ratings, and tracked their fatigue before, after, and in-between starts.  Initially, it seemed that full rest was about 145% (if a pitcher was at 45% after a start, and recovered 25%/day, it would take 4 days to fully recover but he would show 100% after 3 days).  But, as the season went on and the pitchers accumulated more innings, they recovered slower and the max appeared to be lower (maybe around 135%, i forget).  So, while I don't believe there's a hard limit to how many pitches a pitcher can throw, I do believe that there's a cumulative affect on fatigue.
I disagree.  I've never seen a cumulative (i.e. full season) affect on pitching fatigue.

Case in point: playoffs.  You get a first round bye, you get (I believe) eight consecutive off-days for your pitching staff.  You send your SP1 out for the first game of the second round, he's fully rested and his fatigue/recovery is pretty much identical to what you'd expect at the beginning of the season (provided he was not pushed very hard in ST).

Pitching fatigue and recovery is observable, measurable and consistent, provided his usage is consistent throughout the season.  From day 1 of the regular season through the end of the post-season.
8/23/2010 4:47 PM
The__Kid
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According to admin,  per my example above,   SP will recover to 100% at the same rate all season.  SP will fatigue at a faster pace as he throws more pitches.    I'm not making this up.   I've had SPs fatigue at a quicker pace (pitch-wise) towards the end of the season vs ST.
8/23/2010 4:55 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by The__Kid on 8/23/2010 4:55:00 PM (view original):
According to admin,  per my example above,   SP will recover to 100% at the same rate all season.  SP will fatigue at a faster pace as he throws more pitches.    I'm not making this up.   I've had SPs fatigue at a quicker pace (pitch-wise) towards the end of the season vs ST.
I believe you are misinterpreting what they are saying.  ADMIN often gives answers which can be interpreted in different ways.  They've turned that into an art form.

I'm confident that it works precisely as I've described.  Their answer fits my description as well.
8/23/2010 5:14 PM
jvford
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Posted by tecwrg on 8/23/2010 4:47:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jvford on 8/23/2010 4:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by rebelt on 8/23/2010 3:40:00 PM (view original):
Also, I have heard that, based upon a combination of a player's stamina and durability, he has a yearly "limit" on how many pitches he can throw---i.e., once he hits that limit, he begins to recover more slowly and tire more quickly.

Is this the case? Does that actually happen?
Well, sort of...

I ran an experiment in my minors for a couple of seasons in an effort to determine what "full rest" was.  I set a couple of pitchers to 80/80 TPC/MPC with 1 pull ratings, and tracked their fatigue before, after, and in-between starts.  Initially, it seemed that full rest was about 145% (if a pitcher was at 45% after a start, and recovered 25%/day, it would take 4 days to fully recover but he would show 100% after 3 days).  But, as the season went on and the pitchers accumulated more innings, they recovered slower and the max appeared to be lower (maybe around 135%, i forget).  So, while I don't believe there's a hard limit to how many pitches a pitcher can throw, I do believe that there's a cumulative affect on fatigue.
I disagree.  I've never seen a cumulative (i.e. full season) affect on pitching fatigue.

Case in point: playoffs.  You get a first round bye, you get (I believe) eight consecutive off-days for your pitching staff.  You send your SP1 out for the first game of the second round, he's fully rested and his fatigue/recovery is pretty much identical to what you'd expect at the beginning of the season (provided he was not pushed very hard in ST).

Pitching fatigue and recovery is observable, measurable and consistent, provided his usage is consistent throughout the season.  From day 1 of the regular season through the end of the post-season.
That's exactly what I thought until I noticed that my guinea pigs were more fatigued after late season 80 pitch starts as opposed to early season 80 pitch starts, no matter how many extra days of rest they got.
8/23/2010 8:45 PM
Durability and Recovery question Topic
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