Selling Players Topic

plague
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Before the cycle rolled over I wrote down my payroll, then I compared after the cycle occurred, no payroll change.
9/7/2010 7:29 PM
kcden
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Posted by MikeT23 on 9/7/2010 7:25:00 PM (view original):
Care to explain why kcden's draftees from this season and last season both make $7650?

By the way, I got caught with less than $7650 and wasn't able to sign my draftee.  So, unless you're working some magic, draftees cost $7650.
I am slightly less than $7650 from my player payroll limit, and I can not sign an IFA or a draftee, at this point, so I am confused about plague's situation, as well.
On a separate note, your team ******* sucks, Mike.  How the hell have you lost 4 straight games to my ****** team?
9/7/2010 7:32 PM
plague
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Posted by MikeT23 on 9/7/2010 7:25:00 PM (view original):
Care to explain why kcden's draftees from this season and last season both make $7650?

By the way, I got caught with less than $7650 and wasn't able to sign my draftee.  So, unless you're working some magic, draftees cost $7650.
Just out of curiosity were you over payroll? Or under payroll but had less than $7650? The reason I ask is I am basically experimenting now, I always assumed draftees worked the same as free agents but since you brought it up I decided to try it on one of my teams. Its possible that if you are over the cap that it won't let you sign anyone but thats just a guess.
9/7/2010 7:33 PM
plague
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 I am more than a million under the cap, but I signed the player and my payroll did not change. That leads me to believe I can keep signing as many players as I want and my payroll will not change.
9/7/2010 7:36 PM
soxfan121
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Posted by zbrent716 on 9/6/2010 6:58:00 PM (view original):
Indirectly related to HBD, but I wanted to put some information out there for all the people who cry out with the familiar refrain that players are no longer sold in MLB.

2009
Chicago Cubs sold Rich Hill to Baltimore Orioles.

Florida Marlins sold Eulogio de la Cruz to San Diego Padres.

Toronto Blue Jays sold Curtis Thigpen to Oakland Athletics.

San Diego Padres sold Chris Burke to Seattle Mariners. (3/29)

Seattle Mariners sold Chris Burke to San Diego Padres. (4/21; poor guy)

Texas Rangers sold Kason Gabbard to Boston Red Sox.

Philadelphia Phillies sold Justin Lehr to Cincinnati Reds.

Cleveland Indians sold Wilson Valdez to New York Mets.

Colorado Rockies sold Jason Grilli to Texas Rangers.

New York Yankees sold Jose Veras to Cleveland Indians.

Chicago Cubs sold Ryan Freel to Kansas City Royals.

Colorado Rockies sold Jason Hirsh to New York Yankees.

Detroit Tigers sold Josh Anderson to Kansas City Royals.

Chicago White Sox sold Norris Hopper to Washington Nationals.

Chicago White Sox sold Daryle Ward to Washington Nationals.

Chicago Cubs sold Jason Dubois to New York Mets.

San Diego Padres sold Chad Gaudin to New York Yankees.

Cincinnati Reds sold David Weathers to Milwaukee Brewers.

Cleveland Indians sold Andy Cannizaro to Chicago White Sox.

San Diego Padres sold Scott Patterson to Oakland Athletics.

Baltimore Orioles sold Joey Gathright to Boston Red Sox.

Baltimore Orioles sold Freddy Guzman to New York Yankees.

Seattle Mariners sold Jamie Burke to Washington Nationals.

Kansas City Royals sold Tug Hulett to Boston Red Sox.

Detroit Tigers sold Dusty Ryan to San Diego Padres.
That's 24 guys and 25 straight sales last season (2009). In 2008, there were 15 straight sales, including some pretty familiar names and even some that have already turned into All-Star players (Evan Meek). (2009 info from http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2009/YM_2009.htm).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but not a single one of those trades of "cash for player" exceeds $1M, right?

In which case, I will repeat something you've already read from me in a different forum - selling a guy for $1M is acceptable, in MLB and in HBD, IMO. Others might feel differently, but that's where I draw the line - at the MLB published $ rule. 

So...can you honestly say that $4M is acceptable, when the only evidence you have is a long, long list of >$1M "cash for player" deals?
9/7/2010 7:45 PM
plague
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Posted by soxfan121 on 9/7/2010 7:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by zbrent716 on 9/6/2010 6:58:00 PM (view original):
Indirectly related to HBD, but I wanted to put some information out there for all the people who cry out with the familiar refrain that players are no longer sold in MLB.

2009
Chicago Cubs sold Rich Hill to Baltimore Orioles.

Florida Marlins sold Eulogio de la Cruz to San Diego Padres.

Toronto Blue Jays sold Curtis Thigpen to Oakland Athletics.

San Diego Padres sold Chris Burke to Seattle Mariners. (3/29)

Seattle Mariners sold Chris Burke to San Diego Padres. (4/21; poor guy)

Texas Rangers sold Kason Gabbard to Boston Red Sox.

Philadelphia Phillies sold Justin Lehr to Cincinnati Reds.

Cleveland Indians sold Wilson Valdez to New York Mets.

Colorado Rockies sold Jason Grilli to Texas Rangers.

New York Yankees sold Jose Veras to Cleveland Indians.

Chicago Cubs sold Ryan Freel to Kansas City Royals.

Colorado Rockies sold Jason Hirsh to New York Yankees.

Detroit Tigers sold Josh Anderson to Kansas City Royals.

Chicago White Sox sold Norris Hopper to Washington Nationals.

Chicago White Sox sold Daryle Ward to Washington Nationals.

Chicago Cubs sold Jason Dubois to New York Mets.

San Diego Padres sold Chad Gaudin to New York Yankees.

Cincinnati Reds sold David Weathers to Milwaukee Brewers.

Cleveland Indians sold Andy Cannizaro to Chicago White Sox.

San Diego Padres sold Scott Patterson to Oakland Athletics.

Baltimore Orioles sold Joey Gathright to Boston Red Sox.

Baltimore Orioles sold Freddy Guzman to New York Yankees.

Seattle Mariners sold Jamie Burke to Washington Nationals.

Kansas City Royals sold Tug Hulett to Boston Red Sox.

Detroit Tigers sold Dusty Ryan to San Diego Padres.
That's 24 guys and 25 straight sales last season (2009). In 2008, there were 15 straight sales, including some pretty familiar names and even some that have already turned into All-Star players (Evan Meek). (2009 info from http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2009/YM_2009.htm).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but not a single one of those trades of "cash for player" exceeds $1M, right?

In which case, I will repeat something you've already read from me in a different forum - selling a guy for $1M is acceptable, in MLB and in HBD, IMO. Others might feel differently, but that's where I draw the line - at the MLB published $ rule. 

So...can you honestly say that $4M is acceptable, when the only evidence you have is a long, long list of >$1M "cash for player" deals?
Do you allow trades to cover salaries even if its over a million? If player X makes 5 million do you allow a coach to add up to 5 million to cover the salary?
9/7/2010 7:56 PM
zbrent716
Posts: 1970 (0)
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Posted by soxfan121 on 9/7/2010 7:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by zbrent716 on 9/6/2010 6:58:00 PM (view original):
Indirectly related to HBD, but I wanted to put some information out there for all the people who cry out with the familiar refrain that players are no longer sold in MLB.

2009
Chicago Cubs sold Rich Hill to Baltimore Orioles.

Florida Marlins sold Eulogio de la Cruz to San Diego Padres.

Toronto Blue Jays sold Curtis Thigpen to Oakland Athletics.

San Diego Padres sold Chris Burke to Seattle Mariners. (3/29)

Seattle Mariners sold Chris Burke to San Diego Padres. (4/21; poor guy)

Texas Rangers sold Kason Gabbard to Boston Red Sox.

Philadelphia Phillies sold Justin Lehr to Cincinnati Reds.

Cleveland Indians sold Wilson Valdez to New York Mets.

Colorado Rockies sold Jason Grilli to Texas Rangers.

New York Yankees sold Jose Veras to Cleveland Indians.

Chicago Cubs sold Ryan Freel to Kansas City Royals.

Colorado Rockies sold Jason Hirsh to New York Yankees.

Detroit Tigers sold Josh Anderson to Kansas City Royals.

Chicago White Sox sold Norris Hopper to Washington Nationals.

Chicago White Sox sold Daryle Ward to Washington Nationals.

Chicago Cubs sold Jason Dubois to New York Mets.

San Diego Padres sold Chad Gaudin to New York Yankees.

Cincinnati Reds sold David Weathers to Milwaukee Brewers.

Cleveland Indians sold Andy Cannizaro to Chicago White Sox.

San Diego Padres sold Scott Patterson to Oakland Athletics.

Baltimore Orioles sold Joey Gathright to Boston Red Sox.

Baltimore Orioles sold Freddy Guzman to New York Yankees.

Seattle Mariners sold Jamie Burke to Washington Nationals.

Kansas City Royals sold Tug Hulett to Boston Red Sox.

Detroit Tigers sold Dusty Ryan to San Diego Padres.
That's 24 guys and 25 straight sales last season (2009). In 2008, there were 15 straight sales, including some pretty familiar names and even some that have already turned into All-Star players (Evan Meek). (2009 info from http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2009/YM_2009.htm).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but not a single one of those trades of "cash for player" exceeds $1M, right?

In which case, I will repeat something you've already read from me in a different forum - selling a guy for $1M is acceptable, in MLB and in HBD, IMO. Others might feel differently, but that's where I draw the line - at the MLB published $ rule. 

So...can you honestly say that $4M is acceptable, when the only evidence you have is a long, long list of >$1M "cash for player" deals?
Sure, because as you've already heard, I don't think there is a $1 to $1 ratio of the value of RL money to HBD money.

You let me know the next time you see an HBD IFA signed for $500k (what $1M becomes after transfer penalty) who becomes a ML All-Star. I'm willing to bet that next time you see it will be the first time anyone does.
9/7/2010 9:19 PM
gydk
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it is not a rule in MLB that you can not sell a player for over 1 million, the rule is that the comish has to approve the deal. So it's quite possible that a bunch of those deals were for over a mil and the comish approved them.
9/7/2010 9:19 PM
jclarkbaker
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Team up against cap who needs to sign prospects deals $10 mill vet for two prospects = OK

Same team deals 2 prospects for one prospect and $5 mill = verboten....because if involves "cash".

Guess what, both deals involve "cash".

I am sick and tired of the vetoing deals involving cash.  "You did that deal just to sign your prospects because you didn't budget correctly".  So what.  And you dealt your $10 mill LF because you didn't have enough money to trade for that SP you wanted.  It's all the same thing.  Players have a $ value based on their current rankings, projected rankings position, salary, length of contract, etc.  When it comes down to it, it's about making your team better.
9/7/2010 11:00 PM
deanod
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It's not the same thing...not everyone has a $10M LF sitting on their payroll, and if they do he's likely not going to be readily expendable.

If you do deal $10M of deadweight, you're still playing with a $185M budget.  If you deal prospects for $10M cash, you're playing with a $195M budget.

Hell, I could not have a single player on my roster making over $2M and deal for enough cash to sign three $20M IFA's.
9/7/2010 11:10 PM
sportsboy010
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Posted by MikeT23 on 9/7/2010 6:38:00 PM (view original):
Here, I decided to do it for you.

Jaime Thompson RL 22 $60,000 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Steve Zimmermann RL 20 $86,000 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Kent North RL 19 $40,000 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Billy Murray RL 21 $160,000 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Daniel Pride RL 18 $16,500 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Von Christopher RL 19 $17,500 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Dave Garcia RL 19 $55,000 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Eddie Jackson RL 18 $425,000 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Steve Pritchett RL 19 $30,000 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Turk Papelbon RL 20 $235,000 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Enos McGrady RL 21 $0 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Philip Miles RL 20 $0 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Toby Kendall RL 23 $0 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Shawn Kinney RL 22 $0 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Max Kendrick RL 22 $0 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Darrin Bonham RL 23 $0 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Steve Little RL 21 $0 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Rob Hammonds RL 20 $0 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Roland Pritchett RL 22 $0 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Colby Meadows RL 20 $0 $7,650 $0 $7,650
Greg Woolf RL 22 $0 $7,650 $0 $7,650



Do you find it odd that last season's picks, the ones who've been on your roster all season are making the same as this season's picks?
I could be wrong here but I'm going to take a crack at it. The reason these are the same is because a rookie league season is shorter. So, where a major league season is the full 162 games and the AAA-LoA is 140 games or whatever it is, those are considered full seasons. For a rookie league player, a full season is only considered the 90 or whatever games they play. So, even if a player was in rookie league the season before and the new draftees are only there for half a major league season they are all there for a full rookie league season in which case they will all make $7,650. If they come in after the rookie league season begins they will make whatever the prorated amount of $7,650 is at that time. 1 of my worlds is currently in the playoffs and when signing a draftee I had not previously signed, my player payroll did not increase which would lead me to believe that if you wait until the end of the season, as with all other players, the salary will be prorated and therefore be $0 since the season is over. This would appear to be the logical explanation but I am not 100% sure on it.
9/8/2010 1:07 AM
MikeT23
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No, SB, because if you sign a FA, he'll come in at $4300(or whatever the pro-rated number is).    I'm not exactly sure what plague is doing but kcden and I have/had the same issue with having less than $7650 in payroll and being unable to sign a player.
9/8/2010 6:57 AM
MikeT23
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I thought maybe a player salary page was wrong.  But I went thru my entire roster and checked.  The numbers add up.    I'll sign a guy on the 11 AM cycle in Coop.

Current payroll:
Prospect Payroll Budget: $24,000,000 Player Payroll Budget: $73,950,000
Prospect Payroll Used: $11,051,000 Player Payroll, Season 15: $68,365,243
Prospect Payroll Available: $12,949,000 Player Payroll, Season 16: $38,353,333
Prospect Payroll Offered: $0 Player Payroll, Season 17: $26,853,500

Player to be signed:
http://www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/ProspectProfile.aspx?pid=3574968
9/8/2010 8:00 AM
plague
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Posted by MikeT23 on 9/8/2010 6:57:00 AM (view original):
No, SB, because if you sign a FA, he'll come in at $4300(or whatever the pro-rated number is).    I'm not exactly sure what plague is doing but kcden and I have/had the same issue with having less than $7650 in payroll and being unable to sign a player.
It could be because I had over $7650 in available payroll.....Maybe there is a safeguard that does not allow someone to sign a player if you do not have the prospects available salary, however once added to the roster his salary is prorated...It's just a guess, I am not claiming I know the answer, but I can tell you that my payroll did not change after signing that draft pick.
9/8/2010 8:36 AM
MikeT23
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Yeah, I don't believe you have any real reason to make anything up.   I know, when you go to the prospect negotiation screen, that it totals your payroll and bonus money immediately.   That may be the reason you have to have the money available because it's not pro-rated yet.   However, I do find it odd that all the players are showing $7650 on the franchise payroll page.   I know some of mine held out.   I don't think they are/were pro-rated.   My "experiment" should provide some answers at 11 AM.

9/8/2010 8:49 AM
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