Hold the Ace SP Prospect in AAA, 3rd Pro Season? Topic

iain
Posts: 1864 (0)
Hall of Famer
35 1 1 18 1 279
Prospect
Putting a player who who should be in LoA in the majors will have adverse effects.

If he's ML-ready (but perhaps not quite at his otherworldly projections), there's no harm that I've observed.
9/13/2010 7:48 PM
plague
Posts: 2330 (0)
Hall of Famer
18 1 201 602 203
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/13/2010 8:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by plague on 9/12/2010 10:39:00 PM (view original):
I think its the other way around. You are doing the world a dis-service by continuing the same path of giving the better teams a competitive advantage. I would rather see rebuild teams keep their young players in the minors and fully develop, rather  than bring them to the majors early  placing a negative impact to that teams future ability when those players best seasons are getting paid a premium, while the top teams can get take advantage of their top prospects best seasons at the league minimum. That is how the top teams win, they have the depth to let their best prospects fully develop.

If the player is good enough  too make my team I always bring them up their 5th season even if I am not a WS contender, I am talking about bringing players up their 3rd season and earlier.

Winning 60 games when you could be winning 80 isn't "helping" the world.     I'm not sure how you could even attempt to argue that.
Winning 20 games now to lose 30 games later isn't helping the world. I can play that game too.
9/13/2010 7:51 PM
deanod
Posts: 3152 (0)
Hall of Famer
115 18 1 119 1 52
Prospect
Yeah, but you suck at that game.  So you should probably just STFU.
9/13/2010 7:55 PM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
How do you lose 30 games later?  Are you talking in year 7 when the player you promoted declares free agency?  Because, as you know, you get to keep players for the first 6 full seasons as BL players no matter what.
9/13/2010 7:57 PM
plague
Posts: 2330 (0)
Hall of Famer
18 1 201 602 203
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/13/2010 7:57:00 PM (view original):
How do you lose 30 games later?  Are you talking in year 7 when the player you promoted declares free agency?  Because, as you know, you get to keep players for the first 6 full seasons as BL players no matter what.
I was actually taking a extreme position similar to your position. How many games can be won or lost is all subject to each and every teams situation. The person who started this thread is bringing up a player to the majors who is a very small factor, that player might only be worth a  couple of wins. Leaving that player in the minors for 4-5 seasons instead of 0-3 allows him to gain the advantage of letting that player develop without having to pay a premium price and cause a negative salary in comparison to skills. In my opinion if you are not a world series contender you are not helping your team or the world by bringing the player up before his 4th/5th season. I would get into  details but you would  say too long and I don't feel like wasting my time.
9/14/2010 6:35 AM (edited)
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
So the short answer is "Yes, you might hurt your team 7 seasons later because the prospect you bring up won't re-sign and takes the free agent route"?

That's a poor answer.  
9/14/2010 6:44 AM
plague
Posts: 2330 (0)
Hall of Famer
18 1 201 602 203
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/14/2010 6:44:00 AM (view original):
So the short answer is "Yes, you might hurt your team 7 seasons later because the prospect you bring up won't re-sign and takes the free agent route"?

That's a poor answer.  
You will hurt your team earlier than 7 seasons. I know you like everything short and in 1 sentence but not all answers are short.

I don't understand how you can't see the logic and why you wait for 7 seasons before seeing a negative impact.

9/14/2010 6:51 AM
plague
Posts: 2330 (0)
Hall of Famer
18 1 201 602 203
Prospect
 Losing the free agent is part of the equation, but not all of the equation.  It all depends on the free agent, not all free agents are worth keeping. Its not all black and white. Point is you are not doing your team any long term good by bringing up a player early that will make you a 65 win team instead of a 60 win team. You are not helpjng your team or the world to strive for short term medicority over long term success.
9/14/2010 6:57 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
If you wait 20 games, you have salaries of 327, 343, 360 and 378.   Then you'll have an arb year of less than 2m.   So, if you really want to "make a point", the first true impact is season 6 when the arb will be high.   You've speed up the process by a season or two yet fielded a competitive team instead of winning 60.
9/14/2010 6:58 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
As I said before, there's a reason you and I don't share the same worlds.   You're content to hold a stud back, and lose, because you don't think you can win the WS.  I bring the stud up because I think he'll add a handful of wins and maybe help me make a playoff run.   And, if I make the playoffs, I've got a chance to win the WS.
9/14/2010 7:00 AM
plague
Posts: 2330 (0)
Hall of Famer
18 1 201 602 203
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/14/2010 6:58:00 AM (view original):
If you wait 20 games, you have salaries of 327, 343, 360 and 378.   Then you'll have an arb year of less than 2m.   So, if you really want to "make a point", the first true impact is season 6 when the arb will be high.   You've speed up the process by a season or two yet fielded a competitive team instead of winning 60.
No matter what season you bring the player up you can wait 20 games, so thats a moot point.

The player you bring up will have different abilities at varying parts of their career, so not all seasons are equal. You can't just say X amount of seasons, because if you bring up a player early you are gaining 1 of his lower rated ability seasons at the expense of a higher rated ability season.

You will see a financial impact to your balance sheet in  3 seasons per player, the difference between what the player makes if you called him up 1 or more seasons early, and if you held him down 1 or more seasons.




9/14/2010 7:07 AM
plague
Posts: 2330 (0)
Hall of Famer
18 1 201 602 203
Prospect
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/14/2010 7:00:00 AM (view original):
As I said before, there's a reason you and I don't share the same worlds.   You're content to hold a stud back, and lose, because you don't think you can win the WS.  I bring the stud up because I think he'll add a handful of wins and maybe help me make a playoff run.   And, if I make the playoffs, I've got a chance to win the WS.
The reason you and I don't play in the same worlds because you want everyone to play your way. You have this ideology that everything you believe has a halo around it and you demonize everyone else that does not buy into your system. That is why in your mind you are always right. I don't have a problem with the way you play the game and if a bunch of you want to get together and play that way its fine, I could care less what you do in your own world, I just find it irritating how you consistently demonize everyone for not believing in your system. Everything you dont like gets a negative label.
9/14/2010 7:12 AM
plague
Posts: 2330 (0)
Hall of Famer
18 1 201 602 203
Prospect
The other part we differ is I play this game long term, but you look at it short term, it's like 1 year at a time, thats not why I play this game, if I wanted 1 season at a time I would play sim baseball. That goes with almost everything you and I discuss, you look at everything black and white. Seems everytime we discuss something you bring everything to Yes or No, 1 or 2, Black and White. You did it again earlier  by taking my response and saying "The short answer is yes." or the other one is claiming the only difference is season 7 without taking any of the other factors into consideration.
9/14/2010 7:19 AM
tecwrg
Posts: 18997 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 166 32 129
Prospect
Posted by plague on 9/14/2010 7:20:00 AM (view original):
The other part we differ is I play this game long term, but you look at it short term, it's like 1 year at a time, thats not why I play this game, if I wanted 1 season at a time I would play sim baseball. That goes with almost everything you and I discuss, you look at everything black and white. Seems everytime we discuss something you bring everything to Yes or No, 1 or 2, Black and White. You did it again earlier  by taking my response and saying "The short answer is yes." or the other one is claiming the only difference is season 7 without taking any of the other factors into consideration.

You seem to be looking at it in terms of black and white yourself in this argument.  Why not try to find a balance of being as competitive as you can be in the current season without sacrificing your future?  If you have a guy up who can help you win games now, bring him up.  Hold him back the first 20 games if you want to gain the extra season in his prime.

9/14/2010 7:46 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
Actually, plague, the difference of our opinions is far-reaching.    I see lots of grays.  Unfortunately, with you, that's not a possibility.   Your mindset equates to "If I don't think I can win the WS, I don't care how many games I win."   That also leads to your belief that it's not your fault if a n00b accepts your unbalanced trade.   But I'm shifting topics.

The simple truth is this:   If I have a prospect who is marginally better than the BL player, I'll hold him back if I'm out of contention.  May as well save that extra buck.  But if I have a prospect who is SUBSTANTIALLY better, I'm cheating the world by holding him back.   If you're not making your best effort to win games, you're tanking.   If you're losing games you can win because you want these particular 4 players in the bigs at the same time for the next 6 seasons, you're giving wins to someone so you can win later.    Those wins affect the playoff races now.   And that's doing your world a disservice.
9/14/2010 7:54 AM
◂ Prev 1|2|3|4|5...18 Next ▸
Hold the Ace SP Prospect in AAA, 3rd Pro Season? Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.