"Eating a contract" Topic

isack24
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Posted by MikeT23 on 10/28/2010 11:04:00 AM (view original):
Of course, that sterling .457 probably comes from the fact that you are in such a hurry to rid yourself of good players that you never get anything in return.

Keep up the good work.
For what it's worth, I did make some mistakes when I first started.  I traded some guys for less than I could have probably gotten because I didn't understand the game and what to look for.  I had a good, but aging team, and dumped players for prospects, not understanding potential and what the ratings truly meant.  Because of this, I took what was probably a 90-win playoff team and turned them into an 80-win team, and now a 75-win team (although I have a very strong farm system). 

Fact is, I'm glad I was given the opportunity to learn from my mistakes.  I do feel like I was a little taken advantage of by certain owners, but not badly enough for the trade to be vetoed (and we do have vetoed trades in Cobbfather).  In the end, I now understand the game better, and have a team that will be ready to really compete in a couple of years.  It wouldn't have taken much beyond looking at my HD record to see that I'm a competent coach generally, and that I shoudl be given the opportunity to make mistakes in HBD.  Just my opinion, of course.
10/28/2010 11:14 AM
MikeT23
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And big cash deals.  Because people who add a pile of cash are either stupid, lazy or colluding.   None of that should be rewarded.   

But, combined, you two have 20 seasons.  I'm sure you know everything you need to know about HBD.  
10/28/2010 11:14 AM
MikeT23
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The problem with "Let them learn from their mistakes" is that owners do learn from their mistakes.   Unfortunately, if they make too many and dig a hole, they take their knowledge to another world and leave a mess behind.    Good for you for sticking with your errors.  That's not how it usually works.

Which is another problem.  We're not tied to a team.   We can just take our $25 and get another one in another world.   The owners left behind have to deal with the fallout.
10/28/2010 11:16 AM
isack24
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Posted by MikeT23 on 10/28/2010 11:13:00 AM (view original):
Posted by isack24 on 10/28/2010 11:08:00 AM (view original):
Posted by timf on 10/28/2010 11:03:00 AM (view original):
isack I'm very glad you are able to follow, it just adds to the fact that MikeT in fact does not know what he is talking about.
I think he knows exactly what he's talking about. 

It comes down to this: he is going to do what he wants, which he has the right to do.  He's going to veto trades if he thinks it makes another team too strong, or if he simply feels like it.  I don't like that attitude, but I don't play in the same worlds, so I don't really care, and there's nothing I can do about it anyway.

The annoying thing is that he is attempting to justify it by pretending like it's in everyone's best interests that he take on this guardian role.  Most, if not all of the points he's made goto that end have been logically flawed.

If he would have just said, "I'm going to do what I want because I can," this would have been over a long time ago.
Wrong.

I hardly ever veto.  I'll repeat this again for you since it doesn't seem to have stuck.

Get something in return besides "cap space".   Get a defensive SS, a decent 2B who can steal bases, a power hitter with poor splits.   Just a player who could be added to a playoff roster as a 25th man.  A specialty player.   I don't think that's too much to ask.

The only other deals I'll veto is one between a good, experienced owner and a n00b/unsuccessful owner where the n00b is getting screwed. 

Something for nothing for deals are stupid. 
Well, you know yourself better than I do.  If that's not the case, than I'm wrong.  But based on your responses in this thread, I would have guessed otherwise.  Wouldn't be the first time I've been wrong.
10/28/2010 11:18 AM
isack24
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Posted by MikeT23 on 10/28/2010 11:17:00 AM (view original):
The problem with "Let them learn from their mistakes" is that owners do learn from their mistakes.   Unfortunately, if they make too many and dig a hole, they take their knowledge to another world and leave a mess behind.    Good for you for sticking with your errors.  That's not how it usually works.

Which is another problem.  We're not tied to a team.   We can just take our $25 and get another one in another world.   The owners left behind have to deal with the fallout.
That's absolutely true.  I guess my feeling is that if someone is willing to stick it out, then they're going to.  If they're not, then they're not.  Letting them win a few extra games isn't going to change their level of dedication.  Again, maybe I'm wrong, you have more experience with it than I do.
10/28/2010 11:20 AM
timf
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Posted by MikeT23 on 10/28/2010 11:14:00 AM (view original):
And big cash deals.  Because people who add a pile of cash are either stupid, lazy or colluding.   None of that should be rewarded.   

But, combined, you two have 20 seasons.  I'm sure you know everything you need to know about HBD.  
Listen, HBD is a very in depth game but it isn't that complicated once you understand the ratings. If you have baseball knowledge and put in the time to learn how things work on the site, you can taste success early on. If you had bothered to check out my individual team records you would see my Hunter team has improved every season and is a WS favorite. My Stargell team has made the playoffs every season I have been there from the start and my Hobbs team is currently in first after only a prior season and a half. Despite you drawing conclusions based on incomplete information, I know how to build a team and I used a great mentor to get here. I would put my skills against yours any day of the week and I'm sure I would come out on top more often than not.
10/28/2010 11:23 AM
MikeT23
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Yeah, I make a big stink about vetoes so people think I veto everything.  I don't.   My general rule is BL-quality for BL-quality current or future.    If there's a disparity between the quality, good for someone.    Of course, in the two worlds I commish, I don't accept the inexperienced.   And we have minimum win rules.    Those two things pretty much kill "I just want cap space" deals.   

As far as owners sticking it out, I think a lot of it centers around hopelessness and stubbornness.   If an owner loses hope, he has to be very stubborn in order to stick around.   He has to believe he can fix it.    I just think it's better for owners to have hope.    They will get better at the game. 
10/28/2010 11:25 AM
MikeT23
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No, tim, you would not.  Simply because you haven't had to play against the same level of competition.  If you're in "It's my team, I'll do what I want" worlds, you haven't had to learn the game.   You've been "doing what you want" against people who don't care or don't understand the game.   It's a whole new ballgame against top-flight competition.   One day you'll step up your game and join a tougher world.  You'll see.
10/28/2010 11:27 AM
MikeT23
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And, for the record, I wasn't being condescending.  Or at least I wasn't trying to be condescending.   I've found that I do really well in worlds I don't commish.  No down seasons.   It's because I find it easier to acquire talent even without trading.   I don't know if it's because so many are "rebuilding" or if they just don't recognize the usefulness of non-studs.    But the game is easier when all owners aren't top-shelf owners.  Much easier.
10/28/2010 11:31 AM
MikeT23
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To be clear, I'm not saying there aren't any good owners in my worlds where I'm not commish.  There are lots of them.  But the difference between the top and the bottom is much, much larger.    MG/Coop are more like the NFL where anyone could win on any given day whereas my other worlds are more like MLB/NBA where you can get some really bad match-ups.

10/28/2010 11:34 AM
strikeout26
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Posted by timf on 10/28/2010 11:09:00 AM (view original):
Yeah that's right Mike. The first thing you've gotten right. My record is in fact what you posted. The reason I'm winning every division I'm currently in is because I rid myself of all my good players and get nothing in return. Maybe next time you will do some homework.
No offense Tim, but in two of the divisions you lost 120 games your first season and in the other you lost 102. Could you possibly be dominating now because you tanked your way to the top?
10/28/2010 11:40 AM
MikeT23
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I didn't want to say that but he'd have been removed from MG/Coop for those 40 win seasons.  
10/28/2010 11:42 AM
isack24
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Can you really tank your way into a good team after one year? 
10/28/2010 11:43 AM
timf
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Those 120 loss seasons were both me coming in midseason as a replacement. In stargell I came in with about 8 games left and a dead pitching staff. I promoted a few minor leaguers, signed some FA's and have never missed the playoffs since. It's too bad WiS puts those seasons on my record and not the owner who left the team for dead. The season in Hunter I was doing them a favor, I never stuck around after that season but returned later with a different franchise. So Mike, I wouldn't have been removed because I came in for the owner that would have been removed.
10/28/2010 11:46 AM
strikeout26
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I personally think that you can. I have never tanked, so I dont know how easy it is. But, in two of the worlds his first two seasons were bad with fairly low payroll. I defenitely believe that you can do it in two seasons.
10/28/2010 11:48 AM
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