ratings preference...contact versus eye... Topic

robusk
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Yeah...  that is pretty close to my logic as well BL.
11/9/2010 4:32 PM
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robusk
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Well, no point really makes sense at extremes, but in a neutral park, my estimation would be a point of average for about every two points of contact.  Above 80 and below 20 in any rating is probably too extreme to use as a point of comparison.

To use your example though, I would take the 0/50/50/50/100 guy over a 100/50/50/50/50 guy.  A matter of preference though.

Cue 25 guys pulling numbers from some random *** player from some random world that they believe proves their point.
11/9/2010 4:59 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by MikeT23 on 11/9/2010 4:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by boogerlips on 11/9/2010 4:20:00 PM (view original):
For the most part, contact is simply an 'out type' rating. Basically the opposite of 'velocity' for pitchers. Batters with low contact will strikeout when they make an out more often, batters with a high contact will ground/fly/foul out more often. It does appear to me, based on a moderate amount of research, that it has a small batting average modifier built in, similar to 'pitches' for a pitcher. I would say a batter at the high end of the spectrum will have a batting average 20pts or so higher than one at the low end of the spectrum. Not a huge difference, but it is something.
In considering K-outs vs Ground-outs, the overall effect is pretty similar. Guys who strikeout don't ground into double plays. Guys who ground out, will hit into DPs, but can also reach via the error and move runners over occasionally. I would lean towards a high contact rating for fast players, because they will avoid DPs, and a low contact rating for slow players, because they will be DP machines otherwise.
I'm not going to get into how wrong I'm almost certain this is.  But, if you're saying a 100/50/50/50/50 would have a OAV .020 higher than a 0/50/50/50/50, I think most people will figure out the wrongness of it on their own.
I agree.

Contact means putting the ball in play.  Lots of things happen when putting the ball in play.  Like hits.  You can't get a base hit on a strikeout (low contact).  You can get a hit by putting the ball in play (high contact).

That's going to be a lot more than a .020 improvement in AVG.
11/9/2010 5:05 PM
MikeT23
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I'm just saying contact isn't an "out type" rating.    I'm not about to pull some random *** player, or players, to prove my point but feel free to look at your players/teams.   I've improved my TEAM average by 20 points by paying more attention to contact.   
11/9/2010 5:05 PM
apollo7
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Better the splits and power, the more I would weight contact over eye, as a general rule.  A guy with great splits and power needs to swing the bat and be aggressive as it is more likely that a good thing will happen when he puts the ball in play.  I weaker hitter with weaker splits, needs to be more patient as just putting the ball in play is less likely to result in a hit.

Exception is the guy with 90+ speed.  High contact combined with high speed will result in good results regardless of weaker splits.

11/9/2010 5:29 PM
shobob
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Very well put, apollo
11/9/2010 6:05 PM
jonas1102
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Contact doesn't effect average as much as eye effects OBP. A guy with 100 eye will get on base about .100 points higher than his AVG, and a guy with 0 eye will get on base less than .010 more than his average. So a .280 hitter with 100 Contact/0 Eye will have an OBP about .285. And the same hitter, with zero contact/100 eye might hit .230, but his OBP would be about .330. The higher the OBP, the more opportunites to score. The more opportunites to score, the more runs you'll score.
11/9/2010 6:34 PM
MikeT23
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I'll revert back to page 1.
3 walks, 0 hits, 3 outs = 0 runs.   And that means it depends on the rest of your team.  Too many of one = bad news.
11/9/2010 6:44 PM
jonas1102
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Mix in a double play, and three singles won't score a run either. You know, if you want to take the most extreme examples.
11/9/2010 6:57 PM
robusk
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Posted by MikeT23 on 11/9/2010 5:06:00 PM (view original):
I'm just saying contact isn't an "out type" rating.    I'm not about to pull some random *** player, or players, to prove my point but feel free to look at your players/teams.   I've improved my TEAM average by 20 points by paying more attention to contact.   
You probably just got better players... I regularly am at the top of my worlds in average and I pay no attention to contact.
11/9/2010 6:59 PM
robusk
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Posted by MikeT23 on 11/9/2010 6:44:00 PM (view original):
I'll revert back to page 1.
3 walks, 0 hits, 3 outs = 0 runs.   And that means it depends on the rest of your team.  Too many of one = bad news.
Too slanted of anything is bad news...  I think that goes without saying.
11/9/2010 7:00 PM
timf
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To answer the OP's question, the guy with the higher batting eye is going to create more runs. It's called runs created and it is a good measure of how valuable a guy actually is to his team. The 80 power and 80 splits will lead to alot of extra base hits and that guy would be a great run producer who could hit in any of the 3-6 slots in the order depending on the rest of the team.
11/9/2010 7:37 PM
isack24
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Posted by MikeT23 on 11/9/2010 12:01:00 PM (view original):
You can have a .500 OBP and never score a run.
You can have a .500 AVG and never score a run.
11/9/2010 8:45 PM
tecwrg
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Three walks and three strikeouts (in any order) has a 0% probability of scoring runs (unless there's a WP, PB, etc., which is not a function of offense anyway).

Three hits and three outs (in any order) has a probability > 0% of scoring runs.

I'll take "> 0" over "= 0" probability when it comes to offense.
11/9/2010 9:01 PM
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