ratings preference...contact versus eye... Topic

timf
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Perfect example tec. Ichiro's career high OBP is .414 and that was in 2004 when he has 262 hits. He hit .372 that year. That same season Barry Bonds hit .362. He only had 135 hits but his OBP was .609 because he had 232 walks. High OBP is a direct result of walks, or in this case, ALOT of walks.
11/9/2010 11:12 PM
isack24
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Oh my god.

The point is that when someone says "player X is a high OBP player," that doesn't mean he doesn't also hit for average.

There's no "dis-correlating" going on.  You certainly can't "dis-correlate" hits an OBP, either, right?
11/9/2010 11:17 PM
seank07
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Posted by MikeT23 on 11/9/2010 11:29:00 AM (view original):
Some say a hit is not an out.  And a guy with 80/80/80/80 ratings will get some hits.
A guy hitting .350 with an OBP of .380 may not be as valuable as a guy hitting .250 with an OBP of .425.  Simply put, the guy with the higher OBP gets on base more than the guy with a lower one, hence not making as many outs genius.  Many other factors should be taken into consideration as well, such as OPS, which incorporates a hitters ability to get on base with his ability to move runners along with his batted balls.
11/10/2010 12:43 AM
kahrtmen
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My research has shown that an average player (65s across the board) with 100 contact will hit about 40 pts higher than a guy with 0 contact, so the previously quoted 20 pts from the average is pretty accurate.  The difference between a guy with 100 eye and zero eye is going is about 80-100 pts of OBP.  I'd say eye is clearly more valuable, on a per-point basis.  
11/10/2010 3:12 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by seank07 on 11/10/2010 12:43:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/9/2010 11:29:00 AM (view original):
Some say a hit is not an out.  And a guy with 80/80/80/80 ratings will get some hits.
A guy hitting .350 with an OBP of .380 may not be as valuable as a guy hitting .250 with an OBP of .425.  Simply put, the guy with the higher OBP gets on base more than the guy with a lower one, hence not making as many outs genius.  Many other factors should be taken into consideration as well, such as OPS, which incorporates a hitters ability to get on base with his ability to move runners along with his batted balls.
And he may be more valuable, genius.  Given the choice, I'd take a team of .350/.380 players over a team of .250/.425 players all day.

11/10/2010 6:52 AM
tecwrg
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Posted by MikeT23 on 11/10/2010 6:52:00 AM (view original):
Posted by seank07 on 11/10/2010 12:43:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/9/2010 11:29:00 AM (view original):
Some say a hit is not an out.  And a guy with 80/80/80/80 ratings will get some hits.
A guy hitting .350 with an OBP of .380 may not be as valuable as a guy hitting .250 with an OBP of .425.  Simply put, the guy with the higher OBP gets on base more than the guy with a lower one, hence not making as many outs genius.  Many other factors should be taken into consideration as well, such as OPS, which incorporates a hitters ability to get on base with his ability to move runners along with his batted balls.
And he may be more valuable, genius.  Given the choice, I'd take a team of .350/.380 players over a team of .250/.425 players all day.

+1
11/10/2010 7:34 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by MikeT23 on 11/9/2010 6:33:00 AM (view original):
The answer to this question is always "It depends on your team".    Too many of either type is not ideal.
And it comes back to this because you aren't getting a team full of either. 
11/10/2010 7:46 AM
tecwrg
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Posted by tecwrg on 11/9/2010 11:59:00 AM (view original):
Posted by seank07 on 11/9/2010 10:38:00 AM (view original):
Personally I would go with the Eye over Contact if all else was equal.  The purpose of my hitters is to step up to the plate and not make an out.  If I have a lineup of .400+ OBP guys I have done my job.
I'll take the mix of players that can score the most runs.
I'm not sure why the thread continued on after I posted this.
11/10/2010 7:48 AM
MikeT23
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Because people firmly believe that eye is more important than contact or OBP is more important than AVG or vice versa.
11/10/2010 8:08 AM
tecwrg
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Blame Michael Lewis.
11/10/2010 8:11 AM
moy23
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Like I said before I value BE in HBD much more than Contact - but thats just me.

In the example provided of a low contact 40/80/80/80/80 player vs a low BE 80/80/80/80/40 the low contact is offset by the higher splits vR/LHP (and the higher power to a smaller extent). This player will still hit for a high average and probably get 70/70 walks/strikeouts. The second player with low BE / high contact will also hit for high average but will have more of a 30/120 walk/so outlook. There is nothing to offset low BE in HBD like the splits do for low contact.

Either way I could make both examples of players fit into my lineup.
11/10/2010 9:00 AM (edited)
timf
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moy how would the guy with higher contact get more strikeouts? Have you bothered to check any stats, EVER? Low contact is going to get more strikeouts, that is what the contact rating controls.
11/10/2010 9:01 AM
moy23
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Posted by timf on 11/10/2010 9:01:00 AM (view original):
moy how would the guy with higher contact get more strikeouts? Have you bothered to check any stats, EVER? Low contact is going to get more strikeouts, that is what the contact rating controls.
from the help tab for ratings.

Batting Eye involves plate recognition and dictates a player's ability to draw the walk, avoid the strike out looking, and taking advantage of mistake pitches.



In the example the guy with higher contact has low BE. You can't make contact if you don't swing.
11/10/2010 9:22 AM
jvford
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I have a formula that I use to predict performance (OPS) of players.  It's pretty accurate (R^2 of 0.79 for other stat geeks).

Using that formula, Eye and Contact are about even when Power and Splits are around 50. 

When Power and Splits are higher, Contact is more valuable....when they're lower, Eye is more valuable.

11/10/2010 9:24 AM
robusk
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Posted by moy23 on 11/9/2010 10:58:00 PM (view original):
I prefer batting eye. My philosophy is based around getting guys on base... passed balls, errors, stolen bases, hits, more walks can help those players advance and score. I despise strikeouts, especially in clutch situations, and to me it seems like low be guys do that way too often. Jmo.... but plenty of low contact high splits players have solid averages.... not a lot of low be guys have more walks then strike outs. Just my preference I guess.
Wrong
11/10/2010 9:31 AM
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