Who says coaches don't affect players development? Topic

MikeT23
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You guys do realize that the "team" of coaches getting the most bids would be the high FI ones, right?

Nonetheless, I think it would be better than what we have.   The biggest problem with coaches is there is no "attachment".   I may have had the same BC in Coop for all 16 seasons.   No idea.  But I do know that Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Doyle Dreifort has been my best draft pick, to date, in that world.  So we're just looking at numbers and wondering if that 58 is horrible or satisfactory.   Or if we should spend another 2m to get a 75.    While I'm pretty sure about what coaches do(I don't use ADV so I follow development patterns), I'm still not 100% certain that 75 isn't worth 2m more than 58.   With players, you know. 

12/2/2010 3:47 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by csherwood on 12/2/2010 3:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by firemanrob on 12/2/2010 3:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by csherwood on 12/2/2010 2:53:00 PM (view original):
Posted by firemanrob on 12/2/2010 2:45:00 PM (view original):
Let me turn it around then, if FI is so important and so few 80s are available, doesn't it place an emphasis on budgeting and coach signing?  Compare that to the inverse.  If you flood the market and mak high-60s/low-70s the worst you can get, why budget?  Just sign the minimum... Too few people see budgeting as being part of the game's strategy.  That's why you see people trading players with big contracts like a week or two after budgeting ends.
I guarantee you the 80s and 90s guys will still get top dollar. Budgetting is part of game startegy, perhaps the most important part if you are looking at a long term commitment to a league. My personal strategy is to get my coaches cheaply because I dont want to pay the premium prices for the top guys, however, I feel forced to pay premium dollar whenever I need a FI.
Sooo... whats the issue?  If you want a 68+ FI coach, and only 3 exist, then you should budget accordingly, knowing that your target is going to go for 3-4M+.  If you have the mentality that you want to save (be cheap) on coaching and don't budget a lot and cannot sign a FI coach 68+ and have to settle for high-50s or something, the flaw isn't the system, its the strategy.  That was the problem before they flooded the market with the creation of more FI coaches.  There wasn't enough 70+ talent for people who didn't budget a lot for coaching, so they in turn would end up signing 40s and 50s.  They complained enough and coaches were added.  The flaw wasn't coach generation, it was people's strategies.  They wanted a certain "thing", but didnt budget for it and then whined when they didnt get it
again, when the top FI's are getting 5 million a year and the top PC's are getting 3 million, something is wrong. I agree you need to budget for the top of the line if thats what you really want, but I feel that there is a flaw in the system here if a fielding instructor is more valued than a bench coach or a pitching coach. How manyreal MLB pitching coaches can you name? I bet most of us can easily get 5-10. How many real MLB third base coaches can you name? Probably the same at least. Now, how many real MLB fielding instructors can you name? I would be shocked at anyone that knows more than 1, and most of us the number is probably 0.
If there's a MLB team that employs a coach as "Fielding Instuctor", I'm unaware of which team it is.
12/2/2010 3:49 PM
csherwood
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Then lets scrap the FI and incorporate the fielding ratings of the bench, 1B and 3B coach positions to determine fielding improvement in the big leagues, and of the bench coaches only in the minors. Problem solved.
12/2/2010 3:52 PM
firemanrob
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Your flaw is the comparison of HBD to real-life.  I would say its pretty hard to assign arbitrary number values to MLB coaches so you cannot parallel the two.  The other flaw is the two monetary systems are different.  In MLB the contracts of players and coaches are controlled by what a team can spend based on the income they generate.  In HBD, everyone starts with the same amount of money, and the amount spent is dictated by the market.  So if you want a 68+ FI coach and only 3 exist, then spending 5M may be required.  If you are happy with a 58 FI coach and spending 700K to get him, then budget accordingly.  Lastly, comparing the HC/PC to FI is an unfair comparison.  Again market availability determines the contract value of both. 

I would also argue that a coach that affects your entire organization should be paid more than a coach that only affects one aspect, of one level.  i.e. ML PC vs FI.  In MLB, such a thing doesn't exist to my knowledge.  Each level has their own coaches and within that level, you have coaches that handle fielding, not a "fielding czar" for the entire organization
12/2/2010 3:52 PM
firemanrob
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Found my thread... http://whatifsports.com/forums/Posts.aspx?topicID=413397&page=1
12/2/2010 3:54 PM
csherwood
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If we are going to have a fielding czar, lets add a pitching czar, a hitting czar, and a base running czar - so you hire 4 coaches only for your entire organization. I can live with that.
12/2/2010 3:56 PM
csherwood
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...and oif you just hired 4 czars, you are damned right I am spending way more on my pitching czar then my fielding one.
12/2/2010 3:57 PM
MikeT23
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Obamawood?
12/2/2010 3:59 PM
csherwood
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Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2010 3:59:00 PM (view original):
Obamawood?
Sure. I can promise to make tons of changes to make your life better and fulfill none of them as good as anyone.
12/2/2010 4:01 PM
MikeT23
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Will you appoint many czars?
12/2/2010 4:03 PM
csherwood
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Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2010 4:03:00 PM (view original):
Will you appoint many czars?
I will promise to if it will make you vote for me. Then fail to do so and blame it on Congress even though my political party has overwhelming majorities in both houses.
12/2/2010 4:06 PM
new
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The reason top FI make more the PC or HC is they have more of an effect.  They coach your entire org where the other two dont.  Also, how often are your developing prospects in the big leagues?  In most situations the big leaguers are at or very near there final level so it doesnt really matter how skilled there coaches is.  For instance my 28 year old slugger doesnt care if his coaches hitting IQ is 60 or 90. 
12/2/2010 4:09 PM
firemanrob
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But thats not the debate.  You were debating individual level coaches vs 1 coach for an entire organization. 

And to address your suggestion, it wouldn't be a pitching czar, it would be budgeting for "teams" of coaches.  So you just budget a certain amount that you want to dedicate to pitching, hitting, base coaches, etc. 
12/2/2010 4:11 PM
csherwood
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Posted by firemanrob on 12/2/2010 4:11:00 PM (view original):
But thats not the debate.  You were debating individual level coaches vs 1 coach for an entire organization. 

And to address your suggestion, it wouldn't be a pitching czar, it would be budgeting for "teams" of coaches.  So you just budget a certain amount that you want to dedicate to pitching, hitting, base coaches, etc. 
ok, then lets make fielding instructors all worth 10 times more...but also make the ones that re-sign with the same team demand the same they made the year before. I should not get to re-sign a guy at a 75% savings.
12/2/2010 4:12 PM
firemanrob
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Posted by csherwood on 12/2/2010 4:06:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/2/2010 4:03:00 PM (view original):
Will you appoint many czars?
I will promise to if it will make you vote for me. Then fail to do so and blame it on Congress even though my political party has overwhelming majorities in both houses.
Well...Politics 101 would tell you that laws are made in Congress.  So in that respect, he is justified.  Regardless of who's in political control, if you can't pass legislation in the Senate and HoR, the president might as well be my f-ing dog and he's dumb as sh!t.
12/2/2010 4:14 PM
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