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timf
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Right you are shobob. Apparently not many on here actually follow real life baseball. Whether or not it can be implemented is not the point anymore. A manager swearing he would do something and a manager actually doing something are not the same thing. Still have never seen a manager pull his guy in the 9th with the no-hitter on the line and I guess nobody else has either, which is the point here.
1/24/2011 10:05 PM
shobob
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The notion that a real life manager would pull a pitcher with a no hitter in the ninth is laughable to me.  Although it's a team game, you have to deal with the egos of the persons involved, including that of the guy you denied a spot in history because of pitch counts.
1/24/2011 10:10 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by timf on 1/24/2011 9:25:00 PM (view original):
tec they aren't 'needed' but they are a part of MLB and if they want to call HBD a simulation, it needs to be as real as possible. I think they could improve it is all I'm saying.
mbriese, I'm just going to ignore your pointless comment that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Plus, I'm pretty sure you will never be able to find what I asked Mike to find.
No hitters happen in HBD.  We had two in Moonlight Graham this past season, and one in the current season of Mantle.
1/24/2011 10:11 PM
timf
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Nobody is suggesting they don't happen. If you read the OP it asks why a pitcher would be pulled in the 9th with a no-hitter. I don't think anyone has said they don't happen and I certainly have not.
1/24/2011 10:13 PM
mbriese
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Posted by mbriese on 1/24/2011 9:29:00 PM (view original):
Posted by timf on 1/24/2011 9:25:00 PM (view original):
tec they aren't 'needed' but they are a part of MLB and if they want to call HBD a simulation, it needs to be as real as possible. I think they could improve it is all I'm saying.
mbriese, I'm just going to ignore your pointless comment that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Plus, I'm pretty sure you will never be able to find what I asked Mike to find.
Just like you'd never be able to find what I asked to find, yet it's a commonplace in many HBD leagues. Call it a "pointless comment" if you like, but including an option to ensure your pitchers get credit for no hitters isn't the only non-realistic part of HBD, and it's probably the one with the smallest actual effect on game results. Having to pay $1.5-3 million for a fielding instructor (often more than I'll spend on a hitting or pitching coach) is an unrealistic feature that I'd like fixed LONG before they fix your little statistical request.

Just thought I'd bump this post seeing as neither of you paid any attention to it. I find it intriguing that you'd rather save your pitchers' rare stats than change an unrealistic part of the game that actually makes a difference.

1/24/2011 10:22 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by tecwrg on 1/24/2011 9:05:00 PM (view original):
Seriously, one of the "problems" with asking for this is that IF we were givien the "leave the pitcher in if he's throwing a no-hitter" option, then somebody else will want an option for  "leave the pitcher in if he's throwing a shutout", or ""leave the hitter in if he has a shot at the cycle".  Where does it stop?

In the context of the game, no-hitters are a statistical anomoly.  You don't get an extra bonus in the win column if you get one.  While they may be "fun", they provide nothing more than trivial value to a 162 game season.  The downside of allowing SIMMY to override pre-set pitch counts, i.e risk of injury or excessive fatigue leading into the next scheduled start for that pitcher, far outweigh the benefits, i.e. meaningless trivia.
So I ask again . . . after we get the option to get more no-hitters, what comes next?
1/24/2011 10:30 PM
timf
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mbriese, maybe you should start another thread with your point that is non-relevant here. We are talking about pulling a pitcher late in the game with a no-hitter going and you bring up fielding instructors? There is a reason nobody paid any attention to it.
1/24/2011 10:31 PM
mbriese
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Posted by timf on 1/24/2011 10:31:00 PM (view original):
mbriese, maybe you should start another thread with your point that is non-relevant here. We are talking about pulling a pitcher late in the game with a no-hitter going and you bring up fielding instructors? There is a reason nobody paid any attention to it.
Are you really that thick? Read the post. I'm saying that your little fetish for stats should be pretty far down the priority list of fixes for HBD, and giving fielding instructors as an example.
1/24/2011 10:32 PM
timf
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If you are going to contribute to the discussion by all means go ahead. You are not currently doing that so start another thread like I've already advised.

1/24/2011 10:39 PM
mbriese
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Posted by timf on 1/24/2011 10:39:00 PM (view original):

If you are going to contribute to the discussion by all means go ahead. You are not currently doing that so start another thread like I've already advised.

Ah, by "contribute to the discussion" you must mean "talk about how realistic pulling pitchers from no-hitters is", because that's the only way your points even come close to being valid. It doesn't change the fact that you care more about your players' stats than the results of the games themselves. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, maybe you'd be happier playing 'MLB: The Show' on PS3.
1/24/2011 11:01 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by timf on 1/24/2011 9:59:00 PM (view original):

Since they don't publish pitch count targets it's impossible to say for sure that any of those guys went over their pitch counts but I feel pretty confident that Edwin Jackson's max pitch count was well below the 149 he threw to no-hit the Rays last season.

Would it matter if I said "I'm confident he had no pitch count"?
1/25/2011 8:36 AM
MikeT23
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Posted by timf on 1/24/2011 10:05:00 PM (view original):
Right you are shobob. Apparently not many on here actually follow real life baseball. Whether or not it can be implemented is not the point anymore. A manager swearing he would do something and a manager actually doing something are not the same thing. Still have never seen a manager pull his guy in the 9th with the no-hitter on the line and I guess nobody else has either, which is the point here.
Girardi had a pitcher warming up for CC in the 8th.   Whether he would have pulled him in the 9th with a no-hitter is debateable.    He could have been warming him up in case he gave up a hit in the 8th.   Don't know.    As for whether a manager would or wouldn't do it, I can't say.    I certainly think it would have been easier to pull CC in Tampa rather than in NY. 

As for this game, if you really want a no-hitter regardless of pitch counts, raise your pitch count.   If you're comfortable with 150 pitches, set it at 150.
1/25/2011 8:40 AM
neilg
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Doesn't the sim give you the option to enter 'None' as your pitch count?  Seems to me that setting no limit to the number of pitches along with a reasonable pull number would solve any problems with a pitcher getting pulled during a no hitter
1/25/2011 10:47 AM
tecwrg
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Posted by neilg on 1/25/2011 10:47:00 AM (view original):
Doesn't the sim give you the option to enter 'None' as your pitch count?  Seems to me that setting no limit to the number of pitches along with a reasonable pull number would solve any problems with a pitcher getting pulled during a no hitter
Not for starting pitchers, not any more.  Min is 40 and max is 150 for SP's.

Though you could get around this by changing your SP to a reliever by changing his role after he gets the ball but before the game is played.  He'll still get the start, and you'll be able to change his max pitch count to "None".
1/25/2011 11:55 AM
deathinahole
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In the end, people are screaming that pitchers were pulled at the pitch count that they, themselves, save as the target..nay, the maximum.
Because, there is target...and there is maximum.

Do not make me post the dictionary definition of maximum. It's not "maximum, except for...." or "maximum, but read my mind...." or "maximum, but never ever has a manager pulled a pitcher during a no hitter....oh wait, that's inaccurate".
1/25/2011 11:55 AM
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