I would say one in six games is "fairly common," but as someone else posted, he saw seven of thirteen.  If you watch the NL, it happens all the time.

No, it really doesn't.  

It happens enough to warrant being addressed in HBD.

Jeez, I do it again.  1 in 10.   It just isn't Little League where the best player is moved to SS or P and the 2nd best player moves and the 3rd best player moves.

I just picked 10 Yankee games from last season at random.  Five of them had players move to different positions in games.  It's more common that you're willing to admit.  Three times in was the Yankkes, two times it was the other team.

It's not the "stars" who are moving around.  You don't see Jeter, ARod, or Cano moving around.  It's the second-tier or third-tier players, guys who don't have regular positions who are most likely to move.  In the games I looked at, it was Brett Gardner, Austin Kearns, etc. tier players who were being moved around.  In the games I looked at, it was Gardner moving between LF and CF, depending on whether Curtis Granderson was coming in or coming out of the game.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/26/2011 7:37:00 PM (view original):
No, it really doesn't.  

Yes, it really does.

I was going to look through the entire Brewers schedule, but after the first 20, I thought it was unncessary.  It happened 12 times in 9 different games.

Sorry, you're wrong.  It happens in the NL plenty.

And, that still doesn't explain why two people who pinch hit are put in the defensive spots of those people when they don't have to be.     

No, it really doesn't.

But, for the sake of argument, let's pretend it does.

Here's what HBD owners want:   D-spec SS to SS, SS to 3B, 3B to RF, RF to LF, LF to 1B.   THAT doesn't happen. 

True.  What you show above doesn't happen in MLB.  But some movement does happen in MLB.  So we could try to define a happy medium for HBD.  Just saying "no" as a first reaction might not be the best course of action.

I'd estimate I watch close to 100 games a year(or parts of them).  I just don't see it happening that often and, when I randomly click boxscores, I'm just not seeing it.  Perhaps some managers, like LaRussa, do it more often to show everyone how smart they are.   I did see Gardner move between LF/CF a few times so I'm not saying "It doesn't happen."

But, in HBD, we already use players unrealistically.  Doing this, in the manner I laid out above, just moves us further from MLB.

Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Humberto Martinez is an All-Star 2B.  As the season progressed, I started using him in CF/LF regularly due to fatigue issues.  That doesn't happen in MLB.   Now I know someone is going to show me a Biggio or Oquendo(if he ever made an A/S game) but All-Stars don't bounce around like that.   On my Hamilton team, all but one non-catcher has played multiple positions 131 games into the season.   That doesn't happen in MLB and, if we start moving players around to put them in their best defensive positions during the game, it will only become more unrealistic.

And, as you know, a program change like this will lead to unintended results. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/27/2011 7:50:00 AM (view original):
No, it really doesn't.

But, for the sake of argument, let's pretend it does.

Here's what HBD owners want:   D-spec SS to SS, SS to 3B, 3B to RF, RF to LF, LF to 1B.   THAT doesn't happen. 

Yes, it really does.  I don't even know how you can argue it when people are providing concrete examples.

It wasn't "some managers," six different teams were involved, and all six teams did it.  It happens in the NL all the time because of double switches. 

Anyway, I agree with the last statement, and I agree with the potential unintended consequences.

BUT, you still haven't addressed the main point of this thread, which I've stated twice now.  When two players are coming into the game, neither of whom have played in the field yet, there's no reason not to put those two at their best position, regardless of who they PH for.  There wouldn't even be a defensive switch in that case.

Posted by isack24 on 2/27/2011 9:51:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/27/2011 7:50:00 AM (view original):
No, it really doesn't.

But, for the sake of argument, let's pretend it does.

Here's what HBD owners want:   D-spec SS to SS, SS to 3B, 3B to RF, RF to LF, LF to 1B.   THAT doesn't happen. 

Yes, it really does.  I don't even know how you can argue it when people are providing concrete examples.

It wasn't "some managers," six different teams were involved, and all six teams did it.  It happens in the NL all the time because of double switches. 

Anyway, I agree with the last statement, and I agree with the potential unintended consequences.

BUT, you still haven't addressed the main point of this thread, which I've stated twice now.  When two players are coming into the game, neither of whom have played in the field yet, there's no reason not to put those two at their best position, regardless of who they PH for.  There wouldn't even be a defensive switch in that case.

Based on what I've read, and what is being asked for...a grand total of zero examples has been given.

To wit: What we're looking for is two players separately coming into the game. Then, these two players who come into the game on a separate occasion...they switch positions. Not a double switch, nothing like that.

I have to admit...I don't recall EVER seeing that.

Posted by tropicana on 2/27/2011 2:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by isack24 on 2/27/2011 9:51:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/27/2011 7:50:00 AM (view original):
No, it really doesn't.

But, for the sake of argument, let's pretend it does.

Here's what HBD owners want:   D-spec SS to SS, SS to 3B, 3B to RF, RF to LF, LF to 1B.   THAT doesn't happen. 

Yes, it really does.  I don't even know how you can argue it when people are providing concrete examples.

It wasn't "some managers," six different teams were involved, and all six teams did it.  It happens in the NL all the time because of double switches. 

Anyway, I agree with the last statement, and I agree with the potential unintended consequences.

BUT, you still haven't addressed the main point of this thread, which I've stated twice now.  When two players are coming into the game, neither of whom have played in the field yet, there's no reason not to put those two at their best position, regardless of who they PH for.  There wouldn't even be a defensive switch in that case.

Based on what I've read, and what is being asked for...a grand total of zero examples has been given.

To wit: What we're looking for is two players separately coming into the game. Then, these two players who come into the game on a separate occasion...they switch positions. Not a double switch, nothing like that.

I have to admit...I don't recall EVER seeing that.

Of course you don't see anything like that BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SWITCHING POSITIONS.  If two players enter on offense in the same half of an innning, and then are inserted into the game in the next half an inning, they aren't switching; that's just their assigned position.

Unlike in HBD, defensive positions aren't assigned in real life based on the person you PH or PR for, they are assigned based on the position actually played.  That's the entire point of the last paragraph I wrote above.  There's no reason the two players who have yet to play defense can't be assigned to play the best position, as opposed to simply being inserted at the defensive position of the player who they subbed for.

If that wasn't explained well enough, here's how it would work in real life:

The Brewers are batting in the top of the 9th in a tie game.  Carlos Gomez is at the plate and Prince Fielder is on 3B. 

Casey McGehee, who didn't start the game, pinch hits for Gomez while Chris Dickerson pinch runs for Fielder.  The Brewers score.  Now, in HBD, McGehee would have to play CF because he came in for Gomez, and Dickerson would have to play 1B because he ran for Fielder.  Sound stupid?  Right, because it is. 

In real life, there would not be a need for a defensive switch, Dickerson would simply go to CF, and McGehee to 1B.  They wouldn't be switching, they would just be assigned there, and because they would never have played the other position, it wouldn't be listed in a box score.

This is an extreme example, but I remember it happening.  I think it was late in the '78 season.   Both Bucky Dent (SS) and Willie Randolph (2B) were injured.  The Yankees brought in outfielder Paul Blair to play infield because they had nobody else on the bench to fill in.  I seem to recall Blair switching positions, I believe between SS and 2B, from batter to batter based on whether a lefty or a righty was hitting.

Don't have time to look it up right now.  And as I said, it is an EXTREME example.  But I'm pretty sure it happened.

jisack , just because this happened in the same inning doesn't mean it always will. And then you WILL have people switching positions. Which doesn't happen often.