Walkoff Ground Rule Double Bases Loaded Topic

tannermcc
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Today in my game with it tied 5-5 in the bottom of the night I hit a ground rule double and only 1 run scored with the bases loaded.
Shouldn't 2 runs have scored?

3/20/2011 12:29 PM (edited)
kneeneighbor
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PLayer was celebrating and never touched the plate.
3/20/2011 12:38 PM
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tannermcc
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Ah you're right MikeT just looked it up in the MLB rule book.

3/20/2011 12:48 PM
Jtpsops
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Posted by kneeneighbor on 3/20/2011 12:38:00 PM (view original):
PLayer was celebrating and never touched the plate.
Somewhere Robin Ventura just cringed
3/20/2011 8:18 PM
bigal888
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I've brought a similar situation up to CS...man on second, tie game and the guy at bat hits a ball to the infield and a poor throw is made allowing the guy from second score.  And after his score the last line of the boxscore said the batter took second on the throw - which is impossible if the guy scored and ended the game.
3/21/2011 9:45 AM
jvford
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Unless he got to second before the runner crossed the plate.
3/21/2011 11:46 AM
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antonsirius
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Posted by MikeT23 on 3/21/2011 11:58:00 AM (view original):
Either way, I don't think the umpire "makes it official" until the completion of the play.   In other words, he doesn't call the game the second the runner crosses home plate.  He waits until one of the teams concede.    Runners stop running or fielders stop fielding.    In the real world, a batter wouldn't bother running to 2nd because he should know the game is over when he sees the throw get past the 1B.   No point in running, risking injury or possibly getting thrown out before the run scores.
Unless the runner from third gets thrown out at the plate, and that isn't the final out of the inning... in which case the batter damn well better be taking second base.

But the game is, in fact, over the moment the winning run crosses the plate. If the runner gets thrown out at second after that it's irrelevant. Think about the similar situation if it isn't the bottom of the ninth (or whenever) - if the runner from third crosses the plate before the batter gets thrown out at second, the run still counts. In this case, the run that counts ends the ballgame.

Baseball doesn't 'kill the clock'. If there's no point in playing any more, they just stop playing -- whether that means they don't continue a single play, a couple of outs, or even an entire half-inning. Nobody has to officially 'concede' - it's just a convention of the sport.
3/21/2011 12:36 PM
MikeT23
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Just spoke to a buddy of mine who does some umpiring.    He calls the game when the run crosses the plate.   Arms in the air, "BALL GAME!!"    No concern over what happens after that.   I'm having a little trouble reconciling the three run homer that ends the game 7-5 but I'm guessing that's a dead ball issue.   But, in the OP's question, it was a ground rule double.  Dead ball.   Seems like both runs would have counted. 
3/21/2011 1:06 PM
toddcommish
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Posted by MikeT23 on 3/21/2011 1:06:00 PM (view original):
Just spoke to a buddy of mine who does some umpiring.    He calls the game when the run crosses the plate.   Arms in the air, "BALL GAME!!"    No concern over what happens after that.   I'm having a little trouble reconciling the three run homer that ends the game 7-5 but I'm guessing that's a dead ball issue.   But, in the OP's question, it was a ground rule double.  Dead ball.   Seems like both runs would have counted. 
If the guy doesn't touch the plate, the run isn't counted unless there are exceptional circumstances (see Chambliss, Chris).

The only people it affects are the pitcher (ERA), runner (Runs scored), and the hitter (RBI).  The hitter still gets credited for a ground-rule double (two bases for SLG), but only one RBI. 
3/21/2011 2:38 PM
bbwinnow
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A team can only win a walkoff by more than one run on a homer (or a mercy rule if their league has one.) A ground-rule double becomes a single. This is why the final score of the Grand Slam Single game was 4-3 rather than 6-3, and the Harvey Haddix near-perfecto was 1-0 rather than 2-0.

I can remember at least one ground-rule single: John Flaherty hit a walkoff ground-rule single on July 1, 2004 for the Yankees against the Red Sox. He was pinch-hitting for Tanyon Sturtze if I remember correctly. (This is the same game that Jeter dove into the stands to catch a foul ball, and it was also A-Rod's only game at shortstop that year as Jeter was injured on the play.) I think Mickey Mantle did it against Detroit once, but I can't remember the specifics.

By the way, even homers were changed to singles/doubles/triples prior to 1920. Babe Ruth would have had 715 if not for this outdated practice.
3/21/2011 3:56 PM
taz21
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I don't believe that's true.  I've seen more than 1 game end w/ the winning team hitting a 2 run shot in a tie game in the 9th and the final game score was reported as 2-0 (or 4-2, 5-3, etc..)  The Mets walk off grandslam didn't count as a grandslam b/c the Mets bench cleared and mobbed the hitter at 2nd base, therefor, forfeighting the home run, not that it mattered all that much.

3/21/2011 4:04 PM
MikeT23
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My buddy sent me the rule on homers.  He also said there is no specific rule covering ground rule doubles so he'd call the game when the first runner touches home.   After that, it's a scoring problem if anyone wants the extra RS/RBI/whatever.   As far as umpires are concerned, the game is over.

(c) If the home team scores the winning run in its half of the ninth inning (or its half of

an extra inning after a tie), the game ends immediately when the winning run is

scored. EXCEPTION: If the last batter in a game hits a home run out of the playing

field, the batter-runner and all runners on base are permitted to score, in accordance

with the base-running rules, and the game ends when the batter-runner touches

home plate.

3/21/2011 4:31 PM
Walkoff Ground Rule Double Bases Loaded Topic
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