Timeframe for complete re-build Topic

mongoose_22
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I have two re-builds that I took over 2-3 seasons ago. Both were in pretty bad shape... bad contracts, few tradable players, little to nothing in the minor league system. I took a "build-from-within" approach and have had good drafts and landed a couple of solid IFAs with each team. As I project out, it looks like both are on pace to start competing for the playoffs in the fifth season of my takeover, getting stronger each year after that as my MILB pipeline of players works their way up to the majors. I plan to make a couple of FA signings as my team gets on the bubble to fortify those potential weak spots.

For those of you who have successfully done major re-builds.... How much time do you usually take to accomplish a major overhaul of a disaster of a franchise? Do I seen to be making a reasonable pace for a major re-build to a perennial playoff team? Any other thoughts or suggestions on taking over a re-builder are welcome!
5/2/2011 6:19 PM
MikeT23
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This one was horrible.  Worst team I've ever seen.  I was annoyed that it took me 4 seasons:

1 reddevil19 ML 72-90 .444 4th No No      
2 reddevil19 ML 58-104 .358 4th No No      
3 mmacharg ML 42-120 .259 4th No No      
4 MikeT23 ML 66-96 .407 3rd No No      
5 MikeT23 ML 76-86 .469 2nd No No      
6 MikeT23 ML 75-87 .463 2nd No No      
7 MikeT23 ML 92-70 .568 2nd Yes No no no no
8 MikeT23 ML 90-72 .556 1st No Yes no no no
9 MikeT23 ML 93-69 .574 1st No Yes yes no no
10 MikeT23 ML 91-71 .562 1st No Yes no no no
11 MikeT23 ML 92-70 .568 1st No Yes yes yes yes
12 MikeT23 ML 107-55 .660 1st No Yes yes no no
13 MikeT23 ML 89-73 .549 2nd Yes No yes yes yes
5/2/2011 6:26 PM
MikeT23
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This one didn't have any pitching or hitting but payroll was low so I had a lot more options.

1 halo23 ML 61-101 .377 4th No No      
2 shesaid ML 74-88 .457 3rd No No      
3 shesaid ML 78-84 .481 4th No No      
4 RubeRant ML 72-90 .444 4th No No      
5 kingdean ML 65-97 .401 4th No No      
6 MikeT23 ML 75-87 .463 4th No No      
7 MikeT23 ML 89-73 .549 3rd No No      
8 MikeT23 ML 91-71 .562 2nd No No      
9 MikeT23 ML 101-61 .623 2nd Yes No no no no
10 MikeT23 ML 109-53 .673 1st No Yes yes yes yes


5/2/2011 6:27 PM
mongoose_22
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So based on that first horrible one, I seem to be about a year behind your pace Mike... I'm ok with that considering its the first two rebuilds I've ever done. Thanks. Any other input is welcome.
5/2/2011 6:42 PM
MikeT23
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If you're building from within, it's gonna take more than 5 seasons.   Assuming you got 3 BL players from the draft and 2 IFA, that's only 1/5th of a BL team.   Assuming they're not ready until their 3rd-4th season, you've only got 10 of 25 after 5 seasons.  You've got to go outside and get some players. 
5/2/2011 7:26 PM
mongoose_22
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Def agree with that, and it makes perfect sense. My plan was when my first wave of 4-5 prospects come up the ML, sign a few key FAs and trade a couple of good prospects from the lower minors for players who are ready to play now; hopefully I'll be able to assemble a quality team that way.
5/2/2011 7:29 PM
silentpadna
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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/2/2011 6:27:00 PM (view original):
This one didn't have any pitching or hitting but payroll was low so I had a lot more options.

1 halo23 ML 61-101 .377 4th No No      
2 shesaid ML 74-88 .457 3rd No No      
3 shesaid ML 78-84 .481 4th No No      
4 RubeRant ML 72-90 .444 4th No No      
5 kingdean ML 65-97 .401 4th No No      
6 MikeT23 ML 75-87 .463 4th No No      
7 MikeT23 ML 89-73 .549 3rd No No      
8 MikeT23 ML 91-71 .562 2nd No No      
9 MikeT23 ML 101-61 .623 2nd Yes No no no no
10 MikeT23 ML 109-53 .673 1st No Yes yes yes yes


That team was a good take-over team because it had some good talent in the pipeline too - as well as 1st pick in the draft when you took it IIRC (didn't you take Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Jalal Darling with that pick?)...of course now I get to look up in the standings at you with my perennial 100 win team, bowing out early every year...

But the general point is good.  It's not that hard to turn around a franchise if you're willing to spend a little bit.  The easier and more popular method seems to be to t*&k now, er avoid spending an extra dime so you can have a juggernaut 6-7 seasons away...
5/3/2011 7:55 AM
MikeT23
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Yep, Darling was the #1 pick.  There wasn't any talent at the BL level but the previous owner(s) hadn't traded away minor league talent for aging, overpaid BL players.  So payroll was low(15m or so) and, as I said, I had lots of options.   IIRC, 10 or 11 of the players on the WS winner were there when I took the team.  I think the other team only had 3-4 players from the previous regime.   Of course, my payroll has jumped dramatically.

Hamilton KC Swing Kings 6 $36.0M 75-87 (.463) 4 -
Hamilton KC Swing Kings 7 $81.0M 89-73 (.549) 3 -
Hamilton KC Swing Kings 8 $78.9M 91-71 (.562) 2 -
Hamilton KC Swing Kings 9 $100.4M 101-61 (.623) 2 -
Hamilton KC Swing Kings 10 $112.7M 109-53 (.673) 1 X
Hamilton KC Swing Kings 11 - 21-5 (.808) - -

5/3/2011 8:07 AM
MikeT23
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Went back and checked. 9 from the previous owner played.   2 were in the BL when I took the team so there were 7 BL-quality prospects when I arrived.   That's pretty unusual for a team that hadn't finished .500 since it's creation.

5/3/2011 8:15 AM
silentpadna
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BTW, I wasn't implying that you didn't do a good job with the rebuild.  Actually, quite the contrary.  Too many times I see guys that wanna extend their rebuild almost into perpetuity and never actually make the jump and infuse ready talent at the right time.  In the effort to build a juggernaut, many teams waste opportunities to win when they can.
5/3/2011 9:11 AM
MikeT23
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Although there wasn't much in FA in S6, I wonder if "getting the lay of the land" in my first season was the right move.   With the jump to 89 wins in my 2nd season(and the 45m jump in payroll), it feels like I could have won more games in my first season.   I signed 4 good IFA but  Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Ariel Olivares is the only one who'll make an impact for me.  I used the other 3(9.7m, 2.6m and 2.3m) as trade bait. 

Like you, I find the owners who want to run the 30m payroll for 5 seasons and hold back BL-ready players for that "magic moment" to be quite annoying.  Too many times, they never get where they think they're going. 
5/3/2011 9:27 AM
travisg
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Posted by silentpadna on 5/3/2011 9:11:00 AM (view original):
BTW, I wasn't implying that you didn't do a good job with the rebuild.  Actually, quite the contrary.  Too many times I see guys that wanna extend their rebuild almost into perpetuity and never actually make the jump and infuse ready talent at the right time.  In the effort to build a juggernaut, many teams waste opportunities to win when they can.
Absolutely. It drives me batty to see teams run out league-minimum guys with below-average skills when there are veterans with average or above-average skills available on the FA market for $2 million or less for one or two seasons. (This is after the FA market officially ends, for clarification.)

The talent pool is different in most of the worlds I've played in (sometimes ML-caliber defensive SS are scarce, sometimes competent C are scarce, etc.), but there's almost no excuse for playing a poor-hitting RF at 3B or trotting out a 1B or LF who can't OPS higher than .700. You simply do not have to commit big money or multiple years to find competent major leaguers, but it may cut in to the funds you can transfer to prospect payroll.
5/3/2011 10:12 AM
MikeT23
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If you're at the bottom of the WW heirarchy, you can build a respectable team by making claims before the R5.   With my Hamilton team, I think I had 5-6 WW pick-ups on that first team.  Essentially I was picking up the castoffs from the top teams who couldn't protect everyone.    We scored 11 runs less than the league average and had an ERA of 4.58 while the average for 4.12.   I don't think anyone would have blinked if I had trotted out another 65 win team to pick up another top 5 pick(I got the 13th).  It's not like that team had ever been any good and and my division had 100, 100, 88 game winners. 
5/3/2011 10:30 AM
MikeT23
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It was also pretty awesome to sign silentpanda's Type A players and give him 5th/6th round picks. 
5/3/2011 10:33 AM
silentpadna
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Jeez Mike, are you fishing for me to compliment you on that move AGAIN?????
5/3/2011 11:25 AM
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