Thoughts on the Rule 5 draft Topic

mhulshult
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So as we're going through the Rule 5 draft, I got to thinking.  

Obviously there shouldn't ever be great talent in the Rule 5 draft.  Just roster fillers for the lesser teams.  

Based on the way player progression works in HBD (and how mechanical it is), the only time a real redistribution of talent happens is when someone screws up and forgets to protect someone.  Think about it...the only players who need to be on the 40 to be protected are those with 4+ years of pro experience (or those on the ML roster).  So take away your prospects with 3 or fewer years.  How good is the 41st best player in an organization among those who have 4 years experience?

HBD players eligible for the Rule 5 draft don't have "lights go on" (almost all DITR occur before their 4th year) or benefit (based on ratings) due to a "change of scenery".  Guys don't fight through drug addictions, making their team finally give up on them, only to get their life turned around and come back to be an MVP.

I know the Rule 5 draft, even when everyone's paying attention, can be a place where you get a 24th or 25th guy for your Major League roster, but does it hurt worlds more than it helps?  

Who is most likely to screw up and lost a top prospect?  A newbie.  
Who is going to have the hardest time recovering from the loss of a top prospect?  A newbie.

Sure, the prospect goes to the team with worst record (most likely), but at the expense of the team that fell asleep when it came to protecting players.  

And I'm not suggesting that it should be removed or modified (otherwise it'd be in the wrong forum...)  I'm just making an observation, and am curious what people think.
6/7/2011 12:39 PM (edited)
mhulshult
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Likely first response...

If they don't protect him, it's their own fault.  Screw 'em!
                         
Yes, I know, thank you for that.  But that doesn't mean it's good for the world.
6/7/2011 12:38 PM
dedelman
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Likely second response...

The solution is to fix development so that more players have more development after their fourth pro season.

But even given the current development patterns, rule 5 is a valuable way for rebuilding teams that want to win the maximum number of games (given a rebuilding budget) to find AAAA veterans that win them an extra game or two over the even worse garbage they may have in their organizations.  That balances your valid concerns somewhat.
6/7/2011 12:45 PM
nfet
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You might have a point, but once you start setting the rules of the game for the most inexperienced and ignorant player, I think you have an even bigger problem than a newbie losing a decent prospect.
6/7/2011 1:31 PM
tecwrg
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No problems in solid worlds full of veteran owners. 
6/7/2011 2:35 PM
dedelman
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Posted by tecwrg on 6/7/2011 2:35:00 PM (view original):
No problems in solid worlds full of veteran owners. 
True-- but are there enough benefits of Rule 5 in those worlds to outweigh the problems in the less veteran worlds?
6/7/2011 2:38 PM
tecwrg
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Posted by nfet on 6/7/2011 1:31:00 PM (view original):
You might have a point, but once you start setting the rules of the game for the most inexperienced and ignorant player, I think you have an even bigger problem than a newbie losing a decent prospect.
+1

If you levelset the game to the lowest common denominator, then you're dumbing down the game.

The biggest asset of the game is that you have to manage many different aspects of running a franchise.  Protecting players from R5 is part of that.
6/7/2011 2:56 PM
mhulshult
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Posted by tecwrg on 6/7/2011 2:56:00 PM (view original):
Posted by nfet on 6/7/2011 1:31:00 PM (view original):
You might have a point, but once you start setting the rules of the game for the most inexperienced and ignorant player, I think you have an even bigger problem than a newbie losing a decent prospect.
+1

If you levelset the game to the lowest common denominator, then you're dumbing down the game.

The biggest asset of the game is that you have to manage many different aspects of running a franchise.  Protecting players from R5 is part of that.
This is a nicer way of saying, "If they don't protect them, it's their fault.  Screw 'em!"  Which is a perfectly valid point, and is fine in a world full of experienced owners, but is it good for HBD as a whole?

"Yes" is an acceptable answer, by the way...I'm just not so sure.
6/7/2011 3:13 PM
jimmystick
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I agree it might cause more harm than good. I've thought this for quite a while now. Not sure what id do to fix it though. I don't want it removed from the game.
6/7/2011 3:14 PM
mhulshult
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Posted by jimmystick on 6/7/2011 3:14:00 PM (view original):
I agree it might cause more harm than good. I've thought this for quite a while now. Not sure what id do to fix it though. I don't want it removed from the game.
This is where I am too.
6/7/2011 3:25 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by mhulshult on 6/7/2011 3:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 6/7/2011 2:56:00 PM (view original):
Posted by nfet on 6/7/2011 1:31:00 PM (view original):
You might have a point, but once you start setting the rules of the game for the most inexperienced and ignorant player, I think you have an even bigger problem than a newbie losing a decent prospect.
+1

If you levelset the game to the lowest common denominator, then you're dumbing down the game.

The biggest asset of the game is that you have to manage many different aspects of running a franchise.  Protecting players from R5 is part of that.
This is a nicer way of saying, "If they don't protect them, it's their fault.  Screw 'em!"  Which is a perfectly valid point, and is fine in a world full of experienced owners, but is it good for HBD as a whole?

"Yes" is an acceptable answer, by the way...I'm just not so sure.

On the flip side, the teams stocked with talent, by whatever means, can't protect all 40.   Isn't it a good way to level the playing field when an owner in these lesser worlds buids an unstoppable dynasty by what some might consider "odd" means?

6/7/2011 4:06 PM
mhulshult
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I was operating under the premise that no team is stocked with THAT much talent, but obviously they exist.

So, yes, the Rule 5 is a great thing in those situations.
6/7/2011 4:17 PM
MikeT23
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Teams are and I think you know it.   If not, check a few owners with a dozen WS titles and .600 winning percentages.   Most, if not all, are playing in worlds that aren't that competitive.  And, by that, I mean they have WS winning teams and 40m payrolls while 53 win teams have 107m payrolls.
6/7/2011 5:10 PM
taz21
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While I agree, in a good world with coaches paying attention, the Rule 5 draft is mostly worthless, there are benefits for a newbie (if the intent is to help the newbie)

the rule 5 draft gives a newbie their first glimpse into how the draft process, player ranking system works, gives them a chance to experience a "draft" so they'll have time to ask any questions that might arise regarding the process prior to the regular draft.

the rule 5 draft gives a newbie the sense that paying attention to the minors is important, paying attention to which prospects should be desired in the system, and which ones don't make a difference.

the one thing I don't like about the rule 5, which may or may not mimmick real life, but if somebody drafts my 41st player in the Rule 5 in the 5th round, then decides they want to return him the next day.  Despite never having appeared on a ML roster, that player now makes $327k as opposed to the $57k or $38k he may have been making in my system.  Perhaps the guy is nothing more than AAAA insurance, and sure the amount of money involved is peanuts, but that doesn't mean I have to like that a player got a $250ishK raise just for changing hands for 24 hours.

6/7/2011 5:24 PM
Crump123
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They wanted to take the 327k raise for drafted players out the game, if the R5 player was never assigned to an ML roster, but decided it was too complicated, so left it as it is. R5 selection = 280k raise. R5 is good, its not like those little red 5 diamonds are inconspicuous. If you play this game and dont wonder what they mean, and wonder why some players have them and some dont. This probably isnt the game for you. The game is designed as a GM simluation, detail matters.
6/7/2011 6:10 PM
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