World that can't fill - Page 2 - Hardball Dynasty

MikeT23

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When you let 'tards in your house, don't complain when they poop on the floor.

11/30/2011 10:44 PM

Rodneyhuff

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But it isn't a tard world. You guys say there are many ways to fill the world but I haven't heard any suggestions. This purpose of this post was to see if anyone had ideas on what specifically we can do to fill the world.

11/30/2011 11:37 PM

tufft

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I'd challenge anyone to find anything to criticize Branch Rickey over. Excepting all the openings, of course.

Anti-tanking rules aren't for everyone, but they seem to prevent worlds from becoming unbalanced. Branch Rickey has no dynasty teams and no crap teams. There isn't a single team that couldn't make a playoff run within 3 seasons.

I site mailed many of the owners who left the past 2 seasons. None of them had anything of substance bad to say about the world. Most were leaving HBD or cutting back on teams.

One said something about BR not being an elite world anymore, but wasn't willing to explain what that means. Maybe, once upon a time, some people who thought a lot of themselves were in the world. Maybe when a few left, others thought they had to leave too to maintain their "elite" player status?

I've asked if there was some sort of "incident" before I joined. Nobody told me anything.

Playing a challenging game isn't for everyone. I personally don't want to be in a world where I can tank for a few years, benefit from unbalanced trades, and then ride that dynasty. But I get why that would be fun for some people. I think that's one reason BR has so many openings. It's much easier to win in other worlds & winning is fun.

I've contacted WIS Support offering an incentive to owners who take a team. Asked WIS if it was possible. As I kind of expected, they didn't even have the professional courtesy or interest in their own business to reply.

WIS seems to have no interest in spending any money on marketing. Their referral program doesn't pay very much, so I wouldn't expect professional marketers to get behind it. The game is stagnant. I know that keeps me from hyping it to friends. It's hard for me to ask a friend to start playing a dynasty game when all evidence is the game is contacting. Sucks to invest time into a team only to have the world not fill the next season. IMO, other worlds will find themselves where BR is before long unless WIS steps up.

I don't have any big ideas on how to fill BR. The ones I floated to WIS don't seem to be an option.

Still hopeful somebody comes up with an idea or two.

12/1/2011 3:53 AM

tecwrg

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Worlds don't end up with 15 openings by accident. They just don't. If BR is the exception, where 15 guys all decided at the same time that they needed to cut back or that they completely lost interest in the game, then you're probably the first one. But if many of them did indeed feel that they needed to cut back on the number of teams they ran, you have to wonder "Why Branch Rickey and not some other world?". That's part of the way you guys need to address whatever issue is going on there.

But looking at the history of the world, it looks like you also had 15 openings last season as well. And 9 openings two seasons before that. Seems like a recent and chronic problem. That's another thing you need to address . . . understanding why your world in particular has higher than average turnover, and how do you prevent that going forward. How can you attract owners who can and will commit to a long-term stay in your world.

Finally, I wouldn't expect WIS to offer any special incentives to join your world as opposed to other worlds. Why should they? Why would you expect preferential treatment?

12/1/2011 8:49 AM

MikeT23

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Posted by Rodneyhuff on 11/29/2011 8:10:00 PM (view original):
I've sitemailed a few guys that left and some said they were getting out of hardball dynasty and I had one long time owner say he thought, for an elite world, we lowered our criteria for new owners the season before.

This is the start of your problems.

12/1/2011 8:51 AM

MikeT23

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Someone asked me a few weeks ago about reviving a dying world. My sitemail back(cleaned up a bit as some comments were "world-based"):

Anyway, the keys to a successful world, IMO, are the owners. While it's tough to be real picky when you have a dozen openings, you have to screen owners. One and done owners are world killers as they keep a team in constant flux. The prospects don't develop well because of low training, lack of attention or poor coaching. The drafts might be bad due to low scouting or owner disinterest. And the owner may sign bad deals or make bad trades in an attempt to win now because he knows he won't be around for later seasons. Keep those guys out.

Just run of the mill bad owners are a problem too. First, don't let them join. Second, if they're already there, establish some minimum win rules so that you can send them packing at some point. I use 55/125/195/280 in Coop/MG but those are pretty tough, relatively speaking. Try to establish something a little easier but that spans at least 3 consecutive seasons. Some worlds use 2/120 but that's a yo-yo loophole of 50/70/50/70 for the tankers.

Lastly, establish a trade policy of some sort. I abhor salary dumps so there has to be some quality involved from both sides. And you may want to put in something about cash. No more cash than salary is pretty standard. Prevents buying/selling of players.

Again, the key is getting and keeping GOOD owners. It may be tough for you in the beginning because, if you have a lot of openings, the urge is to fill and play. And the other owners will badger you to do just that. But filling with one and dones just perpetuates the problem. Screen owners. Also, start looking before you need owners. Create a recruiting thread before the playoffs start. Find out who's returning/leaving and list the openings. Far too many commishes wait until the season ends to start looking.

12/1/2011 8:54 AM

MikeT23

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I took a peek at your chat. You were talking about merging with another world. That damn sure isn't screening owners. That's attempting to start a season as quickly as possible. STOP doing that. As tec pointed out, you've had a slew of openings for three straight seasons. How many one and done owners have you had?

Bump your thread(or start a new one). Explain your situation. Explain your rules. Explain that you're not just accepting anyone who asks. Establish a solid base and work from there. STOP seeking a quick fix.

12/1/2011 8:57 AM

soursurfer

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Forgive me if I have confused some usernames, but tmfran, were you the commish of one of the other worlds with massive openings (until recently replaced)?

In the instance I am remembering (whether or not it was tmfran) it seemed as though the commish had also fallen behind/never attempted recruiting in the Classifieds forum. Blasting owners at random with Sitemails asking that they join your world is probably a poor tactic. I know I have never joined such a world upon receiving one of those Sitemails. The owners will come to you when they're looking for a world (via the Classifieds). Running the process backwards most often comes off as annoying and as a world desperate for owners.

A world should never be blindsided by 15 openings. The commish should be pounding the pavement before the playoffs begin, as Mike said, to get a solid estimation for how many openings to expect. 15 openings sucks, yes, but nobody in the world (and certainly not the commish) should wake up on rollover day and go, "Holy Hell, how did this happen?!" Recruiting should be nearly complete before the WS ends in cases where openings are small. In the case of 15 openings, that's probably not possible, but at least everyone knows they really need to recruit hard for a long period of time.

Also, there's no guarantee the reasons former owners are giving you are truthful. Upon deciding to leave a world in the past, I've had the commish berate me or try to guilt me into staying, and it's maddening to say the least. Saying you want to cut back on teams tends to illicit less negative reaction.

12/1/2011 9:25 AM

MikeT23

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Did a quick check. Of the owners you lost after S11, 9 of them played only 1-2 seasons in BR. So your S9-S10 recruiting was crap. My guess is you started down the wrong trail a year ago and, as usual, the trail gets worse and worse.

If you want to avoid being the perpetual "ONLY 12 OPENINGS" world, you need to stop it right now. Set a standard for new owners and stick to it.

12/1/2011 9:39 AM

smoelheim

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Look at owners' histories. If they have played 50 seasons across 30 different worlds... take the hint and realize that they PROBABLY aren't going to be a long-term solution for your world, and you'll probably be filling their team again in another 1-2 seasons.

12/1/2011 11:52 AM

tufft

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Posted by tecwrg on 12/1/2011 8:50:00 AM (view original):
Worlds don't end up with 15 openings by accident. They just don't. If BR is the exception, where 15 guys all decided at the same time that they needed to cut back or that they completely lost interest in the game, then you're probably the first one. But if many of them did indeed feel that they needed to cut back on the number of teams they ran, you have to wonder "Why Branch Rickey and not some other world?". That's part of the way you guys need to address whatever issue is going on there.

But looking at the history of the world, it looks like you also had 15 openings last season as well. And 9 openings two seasons before that. Seems like a recent and chronic problem. That's another thing you need to address . . . understanding why your world in particular has higher than average turnover, and how do you prevent that going forward. How can you attract owners who can and will commit to a long-term stay in your world.

Finally, I wouldn't expect WIS to offer any special incentives to join your world as opposed to other worlds. Why should they? Why would you expect preferential treatment?

Special Treatment From WIS - I know I didn't ask for any. I don't think anyone has. I sent in a ticket offer to pay for an incentive for long-term owners out of my pocket. Not even a reply from WIS. Lack of reply is a separate issue, but I think it illustrates a root cause of problems.

I've invested a fair amount of time trying to look for the reasons we've had so many openings. I've asked almost everyone who's left. None of them claimed a problem with BR.

If you look at the people who left after seasons 8-10, many of them are in other worlds together. Worlds that some people have high opinions of. Which is why I thought maybe there was some 'incident'. Nobody has told me about it if there was. I suspect once 1 or 2 of the more influential 'cool kids' left, others just followed.

My theory is BR just drew the first of what will be many bad cards in the deck for other worlds. People are dropping teams. WIS isn't investing to bring in new players. Current players aren't bringing in enough friends (who would all be newbies, anyway) to make up for the numbers leaving.

If someone is going to drop a team, they are probably most likely to drop the team they've had the shortest time or the team that isn't winning now or about to win. So once BR had a bunch of people leave, we became the newest team for a lot of owners. And, because of the anti-tanking rules, it's likely they have other teams that can be made winners more easily. I'm honestly not shocked we have a lot of openings, even though be any other measure the world is very sold.

Thanks for the input.

12/1/2011 2:30 PM

tufft

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Posted by MikeT23 on 12/1/2011 8:57:00 AM (view original):
I took a peek at your chat. You were talking about merging with another world. That damn sure isn't screening owners. That's attempting to start a season as quickly as possible. STOP doing that. As tec pointed out, you've had a slew of openings for three straight seasons. How many one and done owners have you had?

Bump your thread(or start a new one). Explain your situation. Explain your rules. Explain that you're not just accepting anyone who asks. Establish a solid base and work from there. STOP seeking a quick fix.

Mike - I don't recall what's in chat vs. what's in site mail & trade chat, so since you brought it up, I'd like to clarify -

All of the conversations I was part of about merging included:

- Anti-tanking rules stay in place. If we lose those, we're just another world that will soon be loaded with tankers.

- Merging would be based on seniority with the team. So owners with just one season, or new owners, would likely be bumped out. That sucks, but it seems to be the lesser evil. I might not make the cut if we merge with another world based on seniority, but it seems the only fair way.

So merging is actually a very long-term solution to the problems. It creates a world with nothing but owners that have shows a commitment to the team.

Thanks for the input. I've found it helpful.

12/1/2011 2:37 PM

MikeT23

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No, merging means bringing in owners you did not screen from another world. It's a solution but it's not a good one.

12/1/2011 3:57 PM

tecwrg

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Especially considering that the other world is one that also has problems filling because it's somehow become a 'tard world, and the owners who are staying are very likely the ones who are most responsibie for making it a 'tard world.

12/1/2011 4:09 PM

tufft

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Posted by tecwrg on 12/1/2011 4:09:00 PM (view original):
Especially considering that the other world is one that also has problems filling because it's somehow become a 'tard world, and the owners who are staying are very likely the ones who are most responsibie for making it a 'tard world.

Agree that's possible.

Since BR is not full of dynasty teams or disaster teams, I'm going into the merger idea with an open mind. Look at the specific world and teams that we'd be merging with before deciding if I want to be part of it.

Owners who like tanking & fleecing new owners likely wouldn't agree to merge into a world with BR rules.

Until someone shows me otherwise, my opinion is going to remain BR is the unlucky first winner of the Future of HBD Award.

I have no doubt that truly exceptional worlds and truly exceptional commissioners like you fellows will continue to fill without too much stress. I do doubt that there are enough of you out there to keep HBD a viable business unless WIS changes something about their business model.

Merging is not ideal. I'm not excited about losing our history. But I'd rather have a future and be playing the game than sitting around month after month hoping something magically changes. Hope is rarely a good strategy.

12/1/2011 4:43 PM

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