That's a short term solution.  You'd have the same problem next rollover.   You probably don't want to hear this, but considering how many other worlds have less openings, you guys might be waiting for quite a while.  It looked like Hunter and ABU would never fill, but they went public and it happened.  It might come down to just living with the fact that BR might not get to call itself a "good" world for a while.  My suggestion:  recruit noobs.  I still have the first (and second) team that I ever had in this game (I'm now the commish of the world), and I'll never quit those worlds, because those teams are thoroughly "mine".  If the remaining 17 owners in BR really are as dedicated to the world as you all seem to be, none of you will take advantage of your greenhorns, and many of you will help them along, so many of them will probably stick around long-term.  Good luck to ya.

I left this world right before it really started to slide.  It isn't any secret what happened and it was totally predictable, although I hadn't realized that things had gotten this bad.  The world started off with two very engaged, proactive commissioners.  One of them stepped aside when real life started to intrude.  The other slowly lost interest but held onto the commish duties for too long.  I don't remember exactly what problems arose other than recruiting standards dropping, but I do remember leaving the world because the commish/recruiting situation was screwed up.  Seems that hasn't been turned around.  I think MikeT is on the mark here.

Posted by shobob on 12/9/2011 6:55:00 PM (view original):
That's a short term solution.  You'd have the same problem next rollover.   You probably don't want to hear this, but considering how many other worlds have less openings, you guys might be waiting for quite a while.  It looked like Hunter and ABU would never fill, but they went public and it happened.  It might come down to just living with the fact that BR might not get to call itself a "good" world for a while.  My suggestion:  recruit noobs.  I still have the first (and second) team that I ever had in this game (I'm now the commish of the world), and I'll never quit those worlds, because those teams are thoroughly "mine".  If the remaining 17 owners in BR really are as dedicated to the world as you all seem to be, none of you will take advantage of your greenhorns, and many of you will help them along, so many of them will probably stick around long-term.  Good luck to ya.

You're offering a short-term solution also.   And a worse one.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/10/2011 6:16:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shobob on 12/9/2011 6:55:00 PM (view original):
That's a short term solution.  You'd have the same problem next rollover.   You probably don't want to hear this, but considering how many other worlds have less openings, you guys might be waiting for quite a while.  It looked like Hunter and ABU would never fill, but they went public and it happened.  It might come down to just living with the fact that BR might not get to call itself a "good" world for a while.  My suggestion:  recruit noobs.  I still have the first (and second) team that I ever had in this game (I'm now the commish of the world), and I'll never quit those worlds, because those teams are thoroughly "mine".  If the remaining 17 owners in BR really are as dedicated to the world as you all seem to be, none of you will take advantage of your greenhorns, and many of you will help them along, so many of them will probably stick around long-term.  Good luck to ya.

You're offering a short-term solution also.   And a worse one.

No, he's not. 

This is actually a very important long-term strategy for this world, because 1)  People tend to over-commit and then cut back on their number of teams, and 2)  They tend to keep their first teams longest.  If they get guys who already have 3-4 teams, most of them will leave in a few seasons when they feel over-committed.   To get out of the vicious cycle they're in, they need to find another 10 guys who are truly committed to BR, and the right n00bs (not just any n00bs) are more likely to do that than people on their 4th team.  In fact, given that BR is a young world, I expect that part of their problem is that BR was not the primary world for most of their founders. 

Mike, if you're saying that you can't run around willy-nilly taking every n00b that sends you a form letter inquiring about your world, that's correct.  But if I were these guys I'd be trying to bring in every friend I had that plays some fantasy sports game in a committed, successful fashion but who has not played HBD.  Your friend who is always working the waiver wire in your fantasy football league, or the guy who always wins your conference in Hoops Dynasty, these are the guys you want.  And if every one of the guys in BR works this angle they'll get maybe 8 guys to join, and 5-6 of them will be long-termers.  Repeat in 3 months and you're down to 7-8 vacancies a season, which is unpleasant but manageable.

I've been accepting noobs in Yastrzemski world ever since I took over as commish, and with a small number of exceptions, most have worked out quite well.  Usually they are a friend/relative/co-worker of an existing member, so we're not talking about complete unknowns here.  We've probably averaged about 3 openings per rollover over the last 5-6 seasons, and parity has been pretty good recently, so I believe that this strategy can work.

It may be a stretch to think that being committed to one type of fantasy sports game (such as fantasy baseball, or a sim like Hoops Dynasty) means that you'll be committed to another (like HBD).  It's a different mindset, a different level of commitment.

I know for myself, I get invited to play in fantasy MLB and NFL leagues every season by a friend.  I always agree, start the season, and quickly lose interest.  I've gotten to the point where I just don't even allow myself to agree to join anymore.

I can easily see the same thing happening going the other way, a guy who's totally into fantasy MLB who just can't seem to take the same kind of interest in HBD.  He'll go AWOL midway through the first season.

Bottom line: a n00b is still a n00b, with no track record of expertise or commitment to the game.  If you think you can rebuild a solid world with a bunch of n00bs, you're probably fooling yourself.

"Recruit noobs" is pretty open-ended.    Now it's almost as if it's changed to "recruit good noobs".    Adding 6-8 first year owners is a recipe for disaster.    Let's say 75%, an unrealistic number, live thru their grovwing pains.    You still have a couple who'll do more harm than good.    Add 7 more, a couple of which will likely be the "try to steal a WS" types, and you've got 4-5 owners wrecking teams. 

As I mentioned earlier, their S9-S10 recruiting was crap.   Add another season of that and you've got one of the worst worlds in HBD.

Posted by tecwrg on 12/10/2011 4:18:00 PM (view original):

It may be a stretch to think that being committed to one type of fantasy sports game (such as fantasy baseball, or a sim like Hoops Dynasty) means that you'll be committed to another (like HBD).  It's a different mindset, a different level of commitment.

I know for myself, I get invited to play in fantasy MLB and NFL leagues every season by a friend.  I always agree, start the season, and quickly lose interest.  I've gotten to the point where I just don't even allow myself to agree to join anymore.

I can easily see the same thing happening going the other way, a guy who's totally into fantasy MLB who just can't seem to take the same kind of interest in HBD.  He'll go AWOL midway through the first season.

Bottom line: a n00b is still a n00b, with no track record of expertise or commitment to the game.  If you think you can rebuild a solid world with a bunch of n00bs, you're probably fooling yourself.

The thing is, tec-- it's a very low risk strategy assuming (a) you know the guy to be ethical and (b) he makes it through coach hiring/FA.

If you sign a bunch of "veterans" you often get a 2-3 season commitment, followed by their "cutting back" your world.  Maybe 33% stick long-term-- but, granted, none of them go AWOL mid-season in the first season.

On the other hand, if you get the right n00bs, 50-60% stick for the long haul.  And maybe 25% will just vanish-- but assuming the above conditions, that's not a bad thing.  There's no shortage of guys who will take the free partial season and handle the basics.   Hell, some guys specialize in that, including some dude named tecwrg2-- you oughta sue him for copyright infringement, by the way.  And then you haven't lost ground on those 25%, plus you've gotten the long-haul guys.

I don't love this strategy for worlds with a 3-5 perennially vacant 60-102 franchises, because those worlds really need a veteran to bring the team up to 85-77 before "cutting back."  But if your core is too small this is a good way, IMO, to build it.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/10/2011 4:31:00 PM (view original):
"Recruit noobs" is pretty open-ended.    Now it's almost as if it's changed to "recruit good noobs".    Adding 6-8 first year owners is a recipe for disaster.    Let's say 75%, an unrealistic number, live thru their grovwing pains.    You still have a couple who'll do more harm than good.    Add 7 more, a couple of which will likely be the "try to steal a WS" types, and you've got 4-5 owners wrecking teams. 

As I mentioned earlier, their S9-S10 recruiting was crap.   Add another season of that and you've got one of the worst worlds in HBD.

I don't completely disagree with this.  Where we disagree is that I think it would be progress for BR to get from where they are now to 8 vacancies, 5 of which are a complete and total mess, by next season.  It's easier to fill a world with 8 vacancies than 15, almost no matter how bad the 8 franchises are-- some established owners like to come in and build those for a few seasons.  No owner likes to sit around and wait forever for a world to fill.

Our other disagreement may be that I don't think there's any strategy that gets them to 5 vacancies, with a reasonable distribution of quality, by next season.  Unless next season occurs after the economy recovers in 2017 or whenever.  So  I wouldn't even try for that.

Well, the "Fix a world" idea has been bouncing around in my head again.    It was pretty successful in ABU but, after several of us left(4 seasons for me after what I felt was an unfair veto), the world reverted back to it's roots.   I won't get into why I'm not interested in doing it again with BR but someone else could probably make it happen.   You can wield a lot of collective power when a dozen or so join en masse and correct a lot of world ills(and whether BR likes it or not, they have a problem that's not just "bad luck").

IMO, they'd be better served by screening owners and getting it down to a reasonable amount of openings before "taking chances" again. 

I'll put it another way.   Let's say I'm looking to add a team.   I check the open worlds and find one suitable in BR.   I sign up and look around.  I see 7 first time owners(or they start joining after I have).   I leave.   I'm not interested in playing a world with 8 "roommates/brothers/dads/co-workers" simply because we know history.  And history says "roommates/brothers/dads/co-workers" are aliases.    So, by allowing all these n00bs, you elminate some veterans immediately. 

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/10/2011 5:00:00 PM (view original):
I'll put it another way.   Let's say I'm looking to add a team.   I check the open worlds and find one suitable in BR.   I sign up and look around.  I see 7 first time owners(or they start joining after I have).   I leave.   I'm not interested in playing a world with 8 "roommates/brothers/dads/co-workers" simply because we know history.  And history says "roommates/brothers/dads/co-workers" are aliases.    So, by allowing all these n00bs, you elminate some veterans immediately. 

Are you saying that Yaz is full of aliases?  nine of the teams in there are owned by people's friends and relatives that were brought in by established owners, and we have a brother of someone waiting for an opening in the AL, if that ever happens.  I guess I'm not as jaded as you, Mike.  In fact, I encourage it.  As I say in our classifieds ad, we went through a collusion/alias scandal back in season 10, and that hasn't stopped us from allowing people inviting their real life relatives/friends.  It's made us vigilant about looking at trades between the teams owned by known real life friends, but all in all, I see no reason why recruiting noobs this way is a bad thing.  In fact, I like it, because it makes for great real life conversation and rivalry with my friends and brothers.

I'm pretty sure that BR can forget about recruiting the upper crust of the HBD clientele, such as Tec and MikeT.  I'm just making a suggestion to help them get their world rolling without going public.

Not sure what makes Tec and MikeT upper crest owners.  We have plenty of strong owners left in BR.  Why don't upper crest owners give it a shot and see if they are able to win what MikeT thinks could be the worst world in hardball dynasty.  I would welcome the challenge in my division and I'm sure tmfran would as well.

I'm not sure what makes me an "upper crust" owner either.  It must be my plethora of HBD championships.