Catchers: Pitchcalling v. Offense Topic

agentverde
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I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I was curious what some of the active forum members think about the importance of high pitch-calling in catchers.

This was the first seasons (out of 19) I used a high pitch-caller/poor offensive catcher heavily, and I had career years out of three of my starters, so it appears a heavily defensive catcher might be preferable to a big hitter. However, my sample size is still pretty low. Any experts want to weigh in?
4/3/2012 12:21 PM
mediumsize
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I think it is critical that you have a catcher with at least 80 pitch calling. I will sometimes have that number dip into the 70's if the catcher is really good offensively.
4/3/2012 12:26 PM
rangerup
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One of the more frustrating decisions to make in this game for sure.  I can handle dumping some defense for a corner outfielder who can mash, or anywhere on the field really (SS may be a another real hard decision for me).  But the have an itch that my catcher may be dooming an entire pitching staff but it cannot be proven is bothersome. 

For me, my catcher would have to really be one hell of a hitter to have a PC below 80 if I have better options.  And if he is...then I may as well stick him at 1B.
4/3/2012 1:49 PM
jsturgis5866
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There is no one right answer. You can have a World Champion with a catcher PC in the 30s or a 40-win tanker with PC in the 80s. Depends on your team, your players, your world ... good pitchers, pitcher-friendly park, NL team, you might lean toward offense ... so-so pitchers, hitter-friendly park, AL team, PC becomes more desirable.
4/3/2012 2:36 PM
MikeT23
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I think defense in the middle is far more important the PC for a catcher.   I seldom dip below 60 but PC does make a difference. 
Orlando Bonilla C 75 35 387.1 0 7 26 .269 1 4.043
Albert Rivera C 107 97 806.1 8 23 88 .261 0 4.520
Bonilla 88, Rivera 65.
4/3/2012 2:36 PM
MikeT23
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Neifi Gutierrez C 91 47 469.2 8 10 46 .217 0 4.254
Harry Ortiz C 138 108 900.1 1 27 91 .297 2 3.539
Ortiz 85, Guitterez 60

It's pretty constant with CERA.
4/3/2012 2:38 PM
MikeT23
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A long time ago, I looked at 20+ seasons of data.   I think I said the average was .0125 CERA per point.    These examples are a bit higher than that.   But it makes a difference.
4/3/2012 2:41 PM
usfbully
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This question comes up a lot, and I usually see things like "I wont go below 80." I decided to check out my 2 squads I have been building for 4+ years.

One team is 97-64, One starter (VR) 64, the other 100.

My other squad is 52-37. Starter VR has a PC of 67, VL 48.

That second team, has what I consider the best rotation in the world, and they are not impacted by the low PC. Era's of starters: 3.29, 3.01, 3.36, 2.90, 3.36



4/3/2012 3:01 PM
greeny9
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usf, that isnt a terribly scientific look at it though eh?  i agree with MikeT PC makes a difference.  .0125 CERA per pt is pretty big.  So a C with a PC of 40 compared to a C with a PC of 90 would get a swing of .625 thats pretty significant.  one C will "give" up .625 runs less per game then the other.  Not mind blowing, but pretty big.  The 40 PC C better have an awesome bat to make up for the .625.
4/3/2012 5:55 PM
MikeT23
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I doubt it's a perfect curve.   A staff that would produce a 3 ERA with a neutral C is going to be less effected by a high/low PC than a staff that would produce a 4 ERA.  So, yeah, with a fantastic staff and a good D, I wouldn't hesitate to use a big bopper with a 40 PC.
4/3/2012 6:16 PM
dmurphy104
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Also need to take into account the catcher's arm. If a low pc catcher is throwing out twice the percentage of runners as a high pc catcher that can negate alot of the advantage gained by a high pc.
4/3/2012 7:44 PM
usfbully
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Posted by greeny9 on 4/3/2012 5:55:00 PM (view original):
usf, that isnt a terribly scientific look at it though eh?  i agree with MikeT PC makes a difference.  .0125 CERA per pt is pretty big.  So a C with a PC of 40 compared to a C with a PC of 90 would get a swing of .625 thats pretty significant.  one C will "give" up .625 runs less per game then the other.  Not mind blowing, but pretty big.  The 40 PC C better have an awesome bat to make up for the .625.
This is baseball not chemistry!
4/3/2012 9:30 PM
silentpadna
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PC can be a factor, but the factor itself has to vary within the context of several things:

1 - Park effects
2 - Ground ball ratio
3 - Infield / Outfield defense relative to #2

Hard to isolate, but anecdotally, in my very first HBD season, I started 17-25 using a predominantly offensive catcher.  I switched him out for a defensive high PC guy and went 82-38 the rest of the way and won the WS.  I'm pretty sure it had an effect.  I think as your defense gets better, its effect lessens, as that team wasn't real strong defensively.

4/3/2012 9:53 PM
tommy_cian
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I've had this theory that PC effects different pitchers differently.  Those with more pitches are more likely to pick a better pitch for the situation with a high PC, so if your closer has 1 pitch, than the PC means nothing, but if your starter has 4 pitches, than it could mean a lot.
4/5/2012 12:00 PM
MikeT23
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Pitches aren't thrown on an individual basis.

Better pitchers, in general, are less affected by PC. 
4/5/2012 1:03 PM
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